Re: Marine killed in his own home
"Karl Swenson" <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | gmane.music.dadl.ot |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
>***Calling them pigs is unwarranted. The cops doing the raid were >doing what they were ordered to do, and being insulting is petty. This is a legal issue and they cops screwed up. But I have no problem pointing out that the victim contributed to his own demise, as much as I find it horrible.< I'm not calling cops in general pigs but these guys were pigs. When engaging in lawful conduct in one's home contributes to your demise and that demise is shot 60 times something is wrong. ***and again you ignore that there is an element of uncertainty about whether he pointed his rifle at the cops. It does matter. And since the evidence we have right now supports them identifying themselves properly.... >***The number of shots is irrelevant.< No it isn't. It goes directly to the unjustified aspect of it and that these swine weren't acting as rational human beings but rather caught up in the cowboy moment of "let me get some". The last guy shooting blindly with his pistol into a darkened, (compared to the light outside), demonstratres that quite well ***that's your interpretation of a pretty lousy video, that's all I will say, You cannot even say for sure he fired it. >If police in the course of duty see a weapon pointed at them they are justified >in shooting.< They are justified in acting reasonably. They weren't acting reasonably. ***play with the definitions all you want. >The real determining factor is "was he pointing it at them" and unless we get >the helmet cams from the guy in the hallway we will never know. < We know that the gun was on safety. We know that the guy was a marine, (hmmm not so irrelevant now is it?). Its is reasonable to think that a trained marine, (back from Iraq IIRC), wouldn't be pointing a safety engaged weapon - that would be kind of pointless. ***objections assumes facts not in evidence. Did they 'know' he was a marine? Could they see his gun was on safety from down the hall? I mean I know all of your guns has the gigantic dayglo safety flag but did his? Was he trying to disengage it when shot? Was he trying to fire and forgot tot take the safety off? ***there are a lot of theories and no evidence. And if the helmet cam, (assuming there was one), showed him pointing the gun don't you think it would have been released by the police? ***Another convenient assumption. You are engaging in your own straw men now. Add all that evidence up and I'd say you have pretty good circumstantial evidence that they guy wasn't pointing his gun at them. ***all the evidence? What evidence? We saw them arrive code three (lights and sirens) exactly as they said they did. We saw them knock and announce as they said they did. All this contrary to the wife's account. >***I disagree. The raids are not the problem when they are executed properly and legally. They are the problem when police use them irresponsibly. Had this been an Al Qaeda cell plotting a revenge bombing would you react differently? Details matter.< Are you kidding me? Militarized raids to execute drug raids aren't a problem? ***not when they are used PROPERLY, as in used in a case where the threat of violence is REAL. Don't be deliberately dense. How many of these killings do we need to demonstrate unequivocally that these are a huge, easily avoided, problem? ***Yes they are, by following proper procedure. >http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/22/jose-guerena-evidence-dont-buy ***that article is useless as is a lot of the information since the police have sealed what they believed was their justification for the raid. You can speculate and accuse all you want but it is useless without that data. < They haven't sealed what they already said such as the press release. They may have sealed their attempts at a cover up or changing their story which this article is very useful in exposing. ***the article revealed nothing helpful. -- dadl-ot mailing list http://mail.thehood.us/mailman/listinfo/dadl-ot_thehood.us http://news.gmane.org/gmane.music.dadl.ot