Re: Marine killed in his own home

I try to put myself in the other guy's shoes. What if it wasn't a SWAT team
breaking into his house? What if it was the thugs who were breaking into
other homes in the area? If you were a veteran of two tours of Iraq, would
you let your rifle (not shotgun) hidden away and reason with someone who
could loot your home and rape your wife and kill your kids, or would you be
prepared? From his perspective, it would have been helpful to know the SWAT
team was coming, but he didn't. I can't fault him for being prepared. I can
fault the SWAT team for transgressing their training.

What should have happened is that both sides had weapons, but both were
trained in when (and when not) to use them. One of those two sides failed
their training, and a homeowner died.

Johne Cook
| http://raygunrevival.com | http://authorculture.blogspot.com |*
*


On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Paul Christian Glenn <[email protected]>wrote:

> I'm not excusing anyone, least of all the killers. I'm only pointing out a
> fact, which us that this guy isn't dead because his home was raided. He's
> dead because *when* his home was raided, he responded by grabbing a shotgun.
>
>  Whether the raid was justified is irrelevant to the point I'm making,
> which is that if he'd responded peacefully, he would be able to sue the
> police himself, instead of his wife doing it in his memory.
>
>
> On May 27, 2011, at 3:13 PM, Johne Cook <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'd guess because he was a Marine, because there was a history of
> break-ins
> > in the area, and because he was a homeowner taking responsibility for his
> > family. But none of that is really the point. What he does in his own
> home
> > is kind of his business. The SWAT team is responsible not to fire unless
> > fired upon. (I've played through a number of close quarters combat games,
> > and they practice that very thing over and over, and drill that into you
> > that you can't just go firing indiscriminately. The SWAT guys fucked up
> > here, not the homeowner, and now he's dead and they're excused because
> they
> > represent the government.)
> >
> > Johne Cook
> > | http://raygunrevival.com | http://authorculture.blogspot.com |*
> > *
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Paul Christian Glenn <[email protected]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Why was he holding a weapon? As you said, details matter.
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 27, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Mike Findlay <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> So holding a weapon is violence?  I can't tell you the number of times
> I
> >> have
> >>> committed violence.  And I've gotten real nasty and even fired the
> >> things.
> >>>
> >>> Mike F.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Paul Christian Glenn <[email protected]>
> >>> To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
> >>> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 2:51:55 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Marine killed in his own home
> >>>
> >>> I'm adamantly against killing people, period. As I said, this guy
> didn't
> >> exactly
> >>> deserve to die, but he chose violence when violence was visited upon
> him,
> >> and
> >>> this is the result. Somebody was in the right, somebody was in the
> wrong,
> >>> accusations will fly furiously, lives will be devastated -- and in the
> >> end it's
> >>> one more guy who died with a weapon in his hands. One more tragic
> symptom
> >> of a
> >>> society addicted to violence.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 27, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Mike Findlay <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> And a sheep to acquiesce to govt. intrusion, control and execution, (I
> >> thought
> >>>
> >>>> Paul was adamantly against the death penalty), so blithely.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike F.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Bruce Geerdes <[email protected]>
> >>>> To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
> >>>> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 2:41:07 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Marine killed in his own home
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Paul Christian Glenn <
> >> [email protected]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> If you're calling me a sheep, I'd ask why I'm a sheep for subscribing
> >> to a
> >>>>> different ideology than yours. You're just following someone else's
> >> lead,
> >>> sir.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think Mike was going more for a "sheep to the slaughter" allusion.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
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