Re: Is the Karma any good to... Let's avoid a "Gear War"...

It was just an analogy, nothing more intended.  I could just have 
well said it would be like someone going into a Republican 
convention extolling the virtues of the Democrats claiming they are 
better. I wasn't trying to impugn or promote religion.  So, if my 
comparison offended you or anyone else, my apologies.

I agree with the rest of your post.  Can we drop this and move on?
Cheers,
Eric 

--- In [email protected], Dave Bourke <djmbourke@e...> wrote:
> Eric, Greg: I'm sorry, guys, but I don't buy into this atavistic 
> "church/religion" thing. I realise you were both using this as a 
> metaphor but I find this attitude in different forums all over the 
net 
> (usually with the developer(s) as the "god" who can do no wrong 
and 
> whose every word is an utterance of wisdom), and personally I find 
it 
> offensive, sickening, tribal, sycophantic, and just plain 
horseshit.
> 
> The Karma is a tool, nothing more. As is the Kurz. Both are very 
fine 
> tools, for different purposes in my book. The Karma is not a 
sampler, 
> the Kurz is.
> 
> You want real instruments in your music, you hire real players, or 
be 
> prepared to spend a *lot* of time tweaking your samples, your MIDI 
> performance, and your mix.
> 
> You want a synth, buy a Karma :-)
> 
> Kind regards.
> 
> Dave Bourke
> --ideation--
> 
> On 17 Jul 2005, at 5:53 am, Eric J. Sawyer wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, Greg.  That's fairly well how I think too.  I remember
> > experimenting with an old piano.  I put thumb tacks into the 
hammers
> > and dropped aluminum foil behind the strings where the hammers 
hit
> > and I even detuned strategic strings. Added a few beers to the 
belly
> > and stayed up all night recording to an old wire recorder.  What 
an
> > experience.  But when synthesizers came out (I started with the 
old
> > Juno 6), it was amazing. I found my new toy. I didn't want to
> > replicate real instruments.  I was in love with synthetic sounds.
> > Now that doesn't mean I won't or can't appreciate virtual
> > instruments.  They have their place in my scheme of things, but 
they
> > are not the here all and end all.  Finally, nothing replaces
> > strapping on an old worn Honer accordion and jamming away seated
> > facing into a corner for stereo effect while playing long
> > minimalistic passes - intoxicating....LOL
> > Cheers,
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], Greg Krouse <gkrouse@s...> 
wrote:
> >> Hi
> >> Eric you are the consummate even voice on this.  The deal is
> > pretty
> >> simple.  It is about what you plan
> >> to do with the music.  If you are trying to mimic traditional
> > instruments
> >> then going to an instrument that
> >> has great samples makes sense. But for me the name of the
> > instrument tells
> >> all: synthesizer.  I have had the
> >> wonderful opportunity of hearing composers who take their
> > instruments to
> >> new depths because they understand
> >> as traditional performers that you have to find the means of 
using
> > a voice
> >> appropriately.  My first exposure was listening to
> >> composers who made music for modern dance and it enthralled 
me.  I
> > have
> >> never forgotten the personal deep space I found myself in .
> >> Meanwhile good old Eno came out with Music for Airports. I have
> > gone to
> >> different planes on his repetitive music. It is like the
> > simplicity of
> >> say music of a great vocalist with a minimalistic band.  At the
> > same time
> >> one might seek complexity.  The key is
> >> to step beyond the thrill of so many voices and develop a 
musical
> > image of
> >> what one wants and then to go for it.
> >> For me the synth is about taking unnatural voices (not generated
> > in a
> >> traditional way) and finding a new path. Clearly
> >> we will go down similar paths of rhythm but there are new sounds
> > to be
> >> found.  It is again the difference between
> >> a great composer of synth sound and one who applies it to
> > traditional
> >> music.  Pat Methany has created a synth sound
> >> that is unique but can be compared to elevator music for those 
who
> > are not
> >> listening. His music is so tight one can say it
> >> was programmed yet it is not other than arranging Midi postions 
to
> > move
> >> through.  I have seen art that looked like paper bags crumbled.
> > The art
> >> teacher told a student tap the bag. It rang as it was ceramic.  
So
> > what you
> >> might say, why not get a paper bag.? It is about being able to 
do
> > it. The
> >> fact that Metheny and others can create that music right now
> > anywhere is
> >> impressive to me.
> >>           I have heard Digeridoo players who play traditional 
and
> > others
> >> who go elsewhere with the instrument.  That for me is what a 
synth
> > is
> >> capable, yet it is also an incredible tool for realizing a
> > compostion or
> >> hearing something that would take lots of rehearsal or could not
> > be heard
> >> without lots of great musicians.  I am anxious to hear the music
> > that has
> >> flutes that sound like flutes but frankly, for this medium, this
> >> only minorly impresses me as I have friends who play flute, 
guitar
> > and
> >> pianos that well sound great together.
> >> But each instrument has its unique way of pushing it, making it
> > ambient,
> >> stretching a note, adding vibrato, bending it down, plucking it
> > etc. It is
> >> all about what you want to do with your Synth.  For me personal,
> > it is
> >> about realizing music in my head that is traditional but I do 
not
> > have
> >> musicians clamoring at my door and it is about exploration down
> > the new
> >> voice and new application path. If I can give my friends a 
window
> > to the
> >> music in my head through a synthesizer so they can get close to 
it
> > without
> >> the hand waving and replays, that is what it is for me. Imagine
> > what it was
> >> like to pick up a new instrument, like the saxophone or the 
flute
> > before
> >> anyone used it? That is what this instrument is about to me.
> >> Yes I understand the timing, the percussion, the standard bass,
> > etc but for
> >> me it is about surpassing that and exploring to do what?
> >> Make novel music, become the new wizard of tunes or just to
> > explore? For me
> >> it is the last.
> >>          Finally, I do not understand what you are trying to do 
by
> >> comparing the other keyboards here. We all got our instruments
> > because we
> >> like them.  It is like coming into a Mormon church and trying to
> > convert
> >> everyone to become Jews.  Why? Obviously those who are Mormans 
are
> > settled
> >> in their church.  One might get a few who are not settled but 
why
> > disrupt
> >> the rest who are content? I am settled in my synth.
> >>          Thanks however for giving us sites to listen to.  This 
is
> >> inspiration, to hear different ways these instruments are used.
> >> Greg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >




 
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