Re: Source of Cage quote about Ives...

No, the passage in A Year from Monday (at least in the second printing of 1970 in front of me) reads (as much as I can decipher his handwriting):

"There are two other things I would like to point out that interest me [.] One is what I would like to call the mud of Ives [.] It's all the part that is not referential [.] Oout [?] of this mud are complex superimposition lines that makes a web in which we cannot clearly perceive anything that's what I mean by the mud come rising up as it were these American tunes hymns tunes and what not that don't interest me [.]" -pg. 42

Is there another passage I'm missing?

-Josh


________________________________
 From: Rob Haskins <[email protected]>
To: Josh Ronsen <[email protected]>; Silence <[email protected]> 
Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2011 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [silence] Source of Cage quote about Ives...
 

It's in A Year from Monday, in the "Two Statements on Ives."


On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Josh Ronsen <[email protected]> wrote:

Pwyll ap Sion (senior lecturer at Bangor University) is looking for the source of this quote by Cage:
>
>'What interests me are not the Americana aspects, the tunes and all that, but what I call the mud, the complexity of many things going on at once, in which I am not able to know where I am, or what's happening. Invariably in this mystery, something begins to happen to my mind, to change it, because of what I'm hearing. But in my experience, that
>change of my mind is interrupted by the emergency from the mud of some well-known tune, generally some Protestant church tune, and I find myself in a place familiar to others, but carefully avoided by me, in the land so to speak of melodies and accompaniments or, I suppose Ives would prefer it if he's listening, if I would say melodies and
>precedents."
>
>Michael Nyman used this quote in a paper at the First American Music Conference, Keele University, in 1975, and mentions the this viewpoint of Cage is more developed from Cage's "Two Statements on Ives" in A Year from Monday, so we figure it must come in between 1967 and 1975. A few times Cage mentions Ives and mud in the same breath, but not "Protestant church tune" that I can find. I am guessing his mention of church tunes comes from his work on Apartment House/Renga, but that is just my guess.
>
>
>Thanks for any help,
>
>-Josh Ronsen
>http://ronsen.org
>


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