Re: Questions on mesostics and the software Cage used
Herb Levy <[email protected]> Mon, 14 Jan 2019 04:27:40 +0000 (UTC)
| Newsgroups | gmane.music.john-cage |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
------=_Part_19312748_1658386689.1547440060190
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Here's Andrew Culver's list of software he developed for John Cage: Culver - John Cage Computer Programs
It's my understanding that most of these programs are not available. I don't know if Andrew Culver is on this list, but from this web page you should be able find your way to a link from which you may be able to ask him questions.
|
|
| |
Culver - John Cage Computer Programs
Anarchic Harmony: John Cage Computer Programs
|
|
|
On Sunday, January 13, 2019, 9:41:15 PM CST, David Bellows <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello all,
I'm finishing up a mesostic generating program that I'm using for a
larger project. While researching for it, I came across a number of
claims about how Cage generated them.
I get that the process evolved over time. But what I'm most interested
is in the software he used to generate mesostics.
If I'm reading everything correctly, it looks like Jim Rosenberg wrote
the program MESOLIST for this purpose. I am having a difficult time
finding details about the program and hoping some people here can
help.
1. Is it available anywhere for downloading or studying?
2. Did the program generate the wing words?
3. Did the program follow only the 100% rule or allow for the 50% rule also?
4. I've read that Cage chose to leave out some wing words. Is this
true for how he used the program or was that just something he did on
the mesostics he generated by hand?
5. Right now my program chooses up to seven words on either side of
the spine word following the 100% rule for all the words. Next I will
have it limit the number of words randomly but they will still be in
order (ie, anywhere from 0 to 7 of the preceding/following words). A
mesostic generator I see online
(http://vyh.pythonanywhere.com/psmeso/) chooses randomly from all the
words between spine words following the 100% rule. My approach will
generate fragments that make sense since it can potentially string up
to 15 words in a row from the source text while the online one won't
do so. Which approach more closely matches Rosenberg's program?
I'm really a terrible programmer (I'm a composer and not a
programmer), so the fact that I've gotten this much working probably
means I won't change how it works on a fundamental level but I would
like to have an idea about how closely my approach matches the
software Cage used.
Thanks everyone,
Dave Bellows
------=_Part_19312748_1658386689.1547440060190
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microso=
ft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[=
if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>=
96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><bo=
dy><div class=3D"ydp1579b525yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetic=
a Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
<div>Here's Andrew Culver's list of software he developed for John =
Cage: <a href=3D"http://www.anarchicharmony.org/People/Culver/CagePrograms.=
html" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"enhancr_card_7831497334">=
Culver - John Cage Computer Programs</a><br><br>It's my understanding that =
most of these programs are not available. I don't know if Andrew Culver is =
on this list, but from this web page you should be able find your way to a =
link from which you may be able to ask him questions.<br></div><div><br></d=
iv><div id=3D"ydp8c5fa3cbenhancr_card_7831497334" class=3D"ydp8c5fa3cbyahoo=
-link-enhancr-card ydp8c5fa3cbyahoo-link-enhancr-not-allow-cover ydp8c5fa3c=
bymail-preserve-class ydp8c5fa3cbymail-preserve-style" style=3D"max-width:4=
00px;font-family:Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" da=
ta-url=3D"http://www.anarchicharmony.org/People/Culver/CagePrograms.html" d=
ata-type=3D"YENHANCER" data-size=3D"MEDIUM" contenteditable=3D"false"><a hr=
ef=3D"http://www.anarchicharmony.org/People/Culver/CagePrograms.html" style=
=3D"text-decoration:none !important;color:#000 !important" class=3D"ydp8c5f=
a3cbyahoo-enhancr-cardlink" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><table class=
=3D"ydp8c5fa3cbcard-wrapper ydp8c5fa3cbyahoo-ignore-table" style=3D"max-wid=
th:400px" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td w=
idth=3D"400"><table class=3D"ydp8c5fa3cbcard ydp8c5fa3cbyahoo-ignore-table"=
style=3D"max-width:400px;border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:=
rgb(224, 228, 233);border-radius:2px" width=3D"100%" cellspacing=3D"0" cell=
padding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td><table class=3D"ydp8c5fa3cbcard-i=
nfo ydp8c5fa3cbyahoo-ignore-table" style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255,=
255); background-repeat: repeat; background-attachment: scroll; background=
-image: none; background-size: auto auto; position: relative; z-index: 2; w=
idth: 100%; max-width: 400px; border-radius: 0px 0px 2px 2px; border-top: 1=
px solid rgb(224, 228, 233);" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D=
"0"><tbody><tr><td style=3D"background-color:#ffffff;padding:16px 0 16px 12=
px;vertical-align:top;border-radius:0 0 0 2px"></td><td style=3D"vertical-a=
lign:middle;padding:12px 24px 16px 12px;width:99%;font-family:Helvetica Neu=
e, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;border-radius:0 0 2px 0"><h2 clas=
s=3D"ydp8c5fa3cbcard-title" style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:19px;margin=
:0 0 6px 0;font-family:Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-ser=
if;word-break:break-word;color:#26282a">Culver - John Cage Computer Program=
s</h2><p class=3D"ydp8c5fa3cbcard-description" style=3D"font-size:12px;line=
-height:16px;margin:0;color:#979ba7;word-break:break-word">Anarchic Harmony=
: John Cage Computer Programs</p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbod=
y></table></td></tr></tbody></table></a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div=
><div><br></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydp5bdea5c1yahoo_quoted_7737916445" class=3D"ydp5b=
dea5c1yahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Sunday, January 13, 2019, 9:41:15 PM CST, David Bell=
ows <[email protected]> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hello all,<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I'm finishing up a mesostic generating program t=
hat I'm using for a<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">larger project. While researc=
hing for it, I came across a number of<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">claims abo=
ut how Cage generated them.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">I get that the process evolved over time. But what I'm most intereste=
d<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">is in the software he used to generate mesostic=
s.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">If I'm reading ever=
ything correctly, it looks like Jim Rosenberg wrote<br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">the program MESOLIST for this purpose. I am having a difficult time<br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">finding details about the program and hoping some peo=
ple here can<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">help.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">1. Is it available anywhere for downloading or study=
ing?<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">2. Did the progra=
m generate the wing words?<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">3. Did the program follow only the 100% rule or allow for the 50% rule=
also?<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">4. I've read th=
at Cage chose to leave out some wing words. Is this<br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">true for how he used the program or was that just something he did on<br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">the mesostics he generated by hand?<br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">5. Right now my program chooses up to=
seven words on either side of<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">the spine word fol=
lowing the 100% rule for all the words. Next I will<br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">have it limit the number of words randomly but they will still be in<br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">order (ie, anywhere from 0 to 7 of the preceding/fol=
lowing words). A<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">mesostic generator I see online<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">(<a href=3D"http://vyh.pythonanywhere.com/psmeso/=
" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://vyh.pythonanywhere.com/psmeso/<=
/a>) chooses randomly from all the<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">words between =
spine words following the 100% rule. My approach will<br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">generate fragments that make sense since it can potentially string up<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">to 15 words in a row from the source text while t=
he online one won't<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">do so. Which approach more cl=
osely matches Rosenberg's program?<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr">I'm really a terrible programmer (I'm a composer and not a<br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">programmer), so the fact that I've gotten this much =
working probably<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">means I won't change how it work=
s on a fundamental level but I would<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">like to have=
an idea about how closely my approach matches the<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">software Cage used.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
Thanks everyone,<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dave Bellows<br></div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>
------=_Part_19312748_1658386689.1547440060190--