Re: I2P flamewar

And about content?

On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 12:14:42AM -0400, S M wrote:
> Sorry my other letter only went to toad :o).  I also made a few corrections :P.
> 
> On 4/11/05, Matthew Toseland <toad-EI5O+8PHWbJeeLb3ft/[email protected]> wrote:
> > SSK@PF2aP9hyEmi5KM8jUEB8cdAQiSEPAgM,jE74sxXWItDZoYdW82JKJg/signal/69//
> >
> > The article under "Freenet is dead!". Is he right about I2P?
> 
> Well, it is kind of a biased sample only asking people who are running
> Freenet to ask for their opinions :P, but since I run both Freenet and
> I2P (although not at the same time, jesus please work on decreasing
> the memory foot print with these java apps) I can offer some opinions.
> 
> I'll quote the article, and I have a complete copy at the end for
> people to read if they do not have Freenet installed.  As well, if you
> are running I2P i believe there is a Freenet gateway still up, I've
> used it but not in the last 5 months.
> 
> >From the article:
> >I can't imagine something like the above blockquote being made by Ian
> or Toad, partly >because, frankly, Freenet doesn't have that many
> people willing to contribute so frequently >or significantly. I don't.
> Not in the code category anyway, and that's the part that matters.
> 
> The reason why I2P is getting so many developers helping out is
> because of the nature of its design.  Since its a network layer it is
> *designed* to allow *other* developers to create applications for it.
> These other developers do not need to know a lot about anonymity,
> encryption and network archetecture since I2P does the heavy lefting
> in those departments.
> 
> As well, since I2P is so broad in scope (HTTP, FTP, NNTP, IRC,
> anonymous games like Freeciv which I played with Thetower and Cneal)
> and can potentially a wide variety of internet service anonymously it
> attracts a variety of developers as well.
> 
> In short it is its broad scope and the ease (relatively speaking) to
> which it can anonymize 'regular' internet applications is why it is so
> successful.
> 
> In general I do not think Freenet will die, although I see the
> vitality with the AntsP2P and Mute projects with the variety of
> developers and forks taking place with it.  Freenet is monolithic, and
> although I believe it could have benefited from some other 'competing'
> freenet fork projects I don't think Freenet Freenet devels were
> willing to cooperate and encourage new ideas and competing projects as
> much as it could have, and that's (cooperation) the name of the game
> with open source development :).
> 
> In addition to its design I believe that cooperation is why I2P is
> doing so well. Jrandom and the I2P developers have been working with
> the people of
> Azeureus to make a working anonymous bit torrent client for I2P (in
> addition to one made for it), working with the people of FreeBSD to
> have I2P included in one of its distributions.  It's this cooperation
> that is likely the primary driver of I2P's success, and less to do with the 
> design of I2P (although large scope to attract ppl to anonymize their
> programs relatively easily is important also :P).  As well Jrandom
> listens to the 'peanut
> gallery'  (if I am part of the peanut gallery which I guess i am ;) )
> with consideration and explains things to people as well.
> 
> It would be useful if Toad and other Freenet devls were to come and
> just pay a visit to #I2P.  Toad always used to be on IIP, and IIP and
> I2P (2 irc servers) are merged (i believe) now.  What I2P lacks is a
> Freenet type distributed content hashkey program which I believe is
> useful because it allows for content to be hosted 24/7 without a
> direct connect to the content on the host computer, and it allows
> content to be inserted and then securly wiped, Freenet could help make
> that happen.  (P.S. work has been partially done in doing a freenet
> port to i2p by aum [of freemail] called Stasher, and now on his newer
> and less freenet-like [not FCP compatible?] QuarterMaster.
> 
> Anyway lots of ideas here and ppl won't bother to read it if its too
> long (if they read it at all ;) ).
> 
> S M / Synonymous
> 
> == Article ==
> Freenet; Survey
> 
> Jrandom, of I2P fame, had this to say on the i2p mailing list a couple
> of days ago:
> 
>    The release process on this one has gone slower than usual, as we
> wanted to monitor the long(er) term behavior of each build to minimize
> any regressions. The testers following CVS have braved OOMs, NPEs,
> hosed CPUs, and even munged IRC sessions to kill these bugs, and I
> can't imagine how much slower and error prone the development process
> would be going without their help. Many thanks to duck, cervantes,
> Tracker, smeghead, detonate and the rest of the people on #i2p and the
> forum for their hard work both breaking and helping to fix I2P.
> 
> That's pretty nice of him say that. I wonder why the Freenet Project
> is not working as well as this.
> 
> Certainly a lot of it is that Jrandom is an intelligent person, and
> knows how to produce results. But I think part of it is also the fact
> that the I2P is, while not exactly easy, at least easier to address
> than what the Freenet Project is trying to accomplish. But I sometimes
> wonder if the Project itself needs a reset, not just the code.
> 
> I can't imagine something like the above blockquote being made by Ian
> or Toad, partly because, frankly, Freenet doesn't have that many
> people willing to contribute so frequently or significantly. I don't.
> Not in the code category anyway, and that's the part that matters.
> 
> What's the Freenet Project worth to you? Digest that question for a
> moment, and then let me ask you a different question... What's the
> Freenet Project worth to you? I'm not talking about money. I'm not
> asking you how much you like it, and god knows I'm not asking you what
> Captain Crusader Secret Messages you're passing through it. I just
> want to know if Freenet is something that's worth your time.
> 
> So does Sonax, apparently. He's put up a freesite called Freenet
> Survey 1.00, in which he asks, "Who is the average freenet user?".
> Check it out. Consider answering. It's information that I, for one,
> would be very much interested in knowing. More importantly, it's
> information that would help the project, in a general,
> not-quite-verifiable way. He doesn't say, but I feel certain that the
> collected information will be re-disseminated to the interested
> public. Besides, the raw data is all available in KSKs.

-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad-EI5O+8PHWbJeeLb3ft/[email protected]
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.

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