Re: French law Hadopi

On Tuesday 20 January 2009 11:27, 3BUIb3S50i 3BUIb3S50i wrote:
> > They are just disconnect
> > you before bring to court.
> 
> Blocking of Internet connection is in addition to prosecution, but
> legal proceedings is not systematic. The purpose of Hadopi is to
> alleviate the courts. Before, there were very few prosecutions for
> downloading copyrighted files, because the courts were overburdened.
> Hadopi was created at the request of the majors.
> The European Parliament is against this law because it does not allow
> people to defend themselves (or with their lawyer), and because the
> sanctions must be imposed by the courts. (This is not the case for
> Hadopi: sanctions will be imposed by the government and majors.)

Yeah, the European Parliament would prefer to give prison sentences to peer to 
peer developers and a small representative number of major filesharers... 
(they passed IPRED2 on first reading, see my last mail).
> 
> On 1/20/09, Daniel Cheng <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Ancoron Luciferis
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >> Hi there,
> >>
> >> I knew that the french law goes further than any other country in europe
> >> nowadays regarding anti-piracy and stuff like that but I didn't knew
> >> that you can be held guilty for something you didn't do (neighbor hacked
> >> in WLAN). That's like being held guilty for the damage someone makes
> >> that stole your car. I can't really believe that, because that would
> >> negate the base assumption: everyone is innocent as long as his/her
> >> guilt has not been proven.
> >
> > This is not "held guilty" in the legal sense. They are just disconnect
> > you before bring to court. This is a proactive measurement to prevent
> > further "harm" -- just like what have been doing for, for example,
> > child abuse and violent to spouse.
> >
> > Yes, piracy issue is as serious as (if not more important then) trying
> > to kill your wife or child.
> >
> >> Well, it doesn't matter much how strict the law is. As long as the use
> >> of freenet is not explicitly prohibited in France you are free to use
> >> it. If you are concerned about your privacy using the darknet is your
> >> best bet nowadays. If your internet connection is being blocked for
> >> nothing then I would sue the authority. And as a last option you are
> >> still free to leave your country.
> >>
> >> At the 25C3 in berlin, germany, there was some proposal that first
> >> sounds funny but after thinking about it it just makes sense: all new
> >> laws should be tested at the government itself before establishment.
> >>
> >> It's not the people that need to be controlled, it is the government! It
> >> is those people that happen to decide based on money instead of
> >> knowledge that makes our world go mad. There is no terrorism as long as
> >> you don't blame someone for it.
> >>
> >> Just in case you want to know what all those new laws are meant for you
> >> should consider watching this movie: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
> >>
> >> It explains why the world is as it is and why it is that mad nowadays.
> >>
> >>
> >> To summarize this it is not a freenet issue (although I enjoy such
> >> political discussions). If internet connections can be blocked arbitrary
> >> it is even not safe to have one. All the french people with an internet
> >> access should make as much noise as they can to prove that law ad
> >> absurdum.
> >
> > This is a freenet issue.
> > Read http://freenetproject.org/philosophy.html item 5:
> > : The only way to ensure that a democracy will remain effective is to
> > : ensure that the government cannot control its population's ability to
> > : share information, to communicate. So long as everything we see
> > : and hear is filtered, we are not truly free. Freenet's aim is to allow
> > : two or more people who wish to share information, to do so.
> >
> > Note the second line. I would read it as:
> >    "...ensure that the government cannot  (do what it want to do)..."
> >
> >> Thanks for reading,
> >>
> >> AncoL
> >>
> >> 3BUIb3S50i 3BUIb3S50i wrote:
> >>> The blocking is arbitrary, upon request of the majors. Majors give IP
> >>> addresses to a high authority, and high authority blocks the Internet
> >>> connection, without legal proceedings. People can not defend
> >>> themselves. It is even impossible to denounce a neighbor who uses our
> >>> wireless connection: the French state provides software to protect
> >>> connections, and it consider that the owner of the connection is
> >>> protected and responsibly. The European Parliament is against French
> >>> law, but no European law has been passed yet. The French minister of
> >>> culture want several hundred million of sanctions per year without
> >>> legal proceedings.
> >>>
> >>> On 1/19/09, Matthew Toseland <toad-EI5O+8PHWbJeeLb3ft/[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> On Monday 19 January 2009 22:15, 3BUIb3S50i 3BUIb3S50i wrote:
> >>>>> I understand your logical position. But using Freenet, we can be
> >>>>> accused of participating in a network facilitating piracy, even if we
> >>>>> do not download copyrighted files ourselves. In this case, our
> >>>>> Internet connection would be blocked wrongly. And it is possible that
> >>>>> the French state to use this law as a pretext to censor its citizens
> >>>>> annoying. So we are worried.
> >>>> Does the law allow for people to be blocked arbitrarily? Who decides?
> >>>>> On 1/19/09, Matthew Toseland <toad-EI5O+8PHWbJeeLb3ft/[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Monday 19 January 2009 18:11, 3BUIb3S50i 3BUIb3S50i wrote:
> >>>>>>> Yes and I use Freenet for legal use only. Like a lot of users! But 
we
> >>>>>>> can not know what is in the datastores and in the freenet traffic.
> >>>>>>> So,
> >>>>>>> you think the French state does not attack Freenet or its users? I
> >>>>>>> hope. We'll see...
> >>>>>> I didn't say that. All I said was if you are worried about having 
your
> >>>>>> internet connection blocked it is presumably because you are
> >>>>>> downloading
> >>>>>> illegal copyrighted files, and therefore that we don't want to have
> >>>> anything
> >>>>>> to do with you.
> >>>>>>> On 1/19/09, Matthew Toseland <toad-EI5O+8PHWbJeeLb3ft/[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Monday 19 January 2009 15:28, 3BUIb3S50i 3BUIb3S50i wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> There is a break in the sanctions of french law Hadopi. Hadopi
> >>>>>>>>> allow
> >>>>>>>>> censured users to use television, telephone and maybe anothers
> >>>>>>>>> payables services. So, victims will have a lot of censured ports,
> >>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>> not all. Some ports will continue to run. Can we found a method to
> >>>>>>>>> override this censorship (with freenet)? e.g. encapsulate traffic
> >>>>>>>>> into
> >>>>>>>>> VoIP. This is very difficult: ISP can limit traffic only from/to
> >>>>>>>>> its
> >>>>>>>>> servers. What do you think? It's very important for french users.
> >>>>>>>>> French users risk to left freenet soon... like Batosai. For
> >>>>>>>>> example,
> >>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>> do not want to risk losing my Internet connection. The french
> >>>>>>>>> community is afraid by this law. Some users have requested TCP
> >>>>>>>>> support
> >>>>>>>>> for hide freenet traffic in https, http etc. ISP will spy their
> >>>>>>>>> users,
> >>>>>>>>> so Darknet will not be sufficient.
> >>>>>>>> I assume this is some sort of law whereby those who download
> >>>> copyrighted
> >>>>>>>> files
> >>>>>>>> get their internet access cut? Please do not use Freenet to
> >>>>>>>> illegally
> >>>>>>>> copy
> >>>>>>>> copyrighted files. The Freenet Project cannot have anything to do
> >>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>> piracy, as per Grokster vs MGM.
> >>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>>
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> >>>
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> 
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