Re: strengths and weaknesses of Gnutella
Arne Babenhauserheide <[email protected]> Thu, 8 Apr 2010 14:59:55 +0200
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Hi Michael,=20
Am Mittwoch, 7. April 2010 01:11:51 schrieb Michael Green:
> Wanted to reply earlier, but got caught up with the Digital Economy Bill
> mess in the UK; Hopefully it'll be voted out tomorrow! Anyway ...
No problem =E2=80=94 there is nasty stuff happening all around at the momen=
t (for=20
example some people in the EU want to establish internet censorship after t=
he=20
opposition of about the whole online community in Germany made it unfeasibl=
e=20
to do netionally).=20
> The strength
> is that this will keep Gnutella resillient to data poisoning (including
> DHT) -- simplified, look at it as a "majority vote": a poisoned subset
> will gradually be cleaned by the majority of the (overlapping) clean
> subsets.
If I remember correctly, that only goes for popular content, but yes, I=20
overlooked it. Thanks!
> What purpose will Gnutella have in the future?
That=E2=80=99s a hard one.=20
I see several options:=20
=E2=80=A2 An integral part of a *connected* semantic desktop. Gnutella is h=
eavily=20
optimized for fuzzy tag based searching, so it could perfectly deliver a =
=E2=80=9Cfind=20
similar files by metadata=E2=80=9D functionality, and the DHT can deliver =
=E2=80=9Cwhat other=20
people say about this file=E2=80=9D.=20
=E2=80=A2 A general download accellerator via the download mesh (only needs=
the sha1=20
and a tigertree, but no central server).=20
=E2=80=A2 A general information query network. Skype has that =E2=80=9Csear=
ch for people=E2=80=9D=20
functionality, and Gnutella could supply that for Jabber, if people would=20
cache the data of those of their friends who want to be searchable (so peop=
le=20
can be found as long as only one friend is online).=20
=E2=80=A2 A very efficient p2p filesharing system (that=E2=80=99s an import=
ant one we shouldn=E2=80=99t=20
forget).=20
=E2=80=A2 An anonymous filesharing system (routed over i2p).=20
=E2=80=A2 A p2p podcast-to-radio solution (for some ideas see=20
http://gnuticles.gnufu.net/magma.html )
> As for the other two weaknesses, which is the difficulty to implement a
> new servent and lack of integration (whether desktop or mobile), I can
> only attribute that to a lack of, or fragmentation of the documentation.
Maybe it would be useful to write a =E2=80=9CHow to implement a basic Gnute=
lla=20
servent=E2=80=9D.=20
Firstoff just going for a simple leaf node, so people can quickly experimen=
t=20
with it. A fullblown Gnutella servent might take years to write, but how ha=
rd=20
would it be to write a basic leaf-only servent?=20
I wanted to do something similar for quite some time, but never got over th=
e=20
initial steps of creating a working Python based Gnutella servent =E2=80=94=
got=20
sidetracked by other projects.=20
> My only consideration regarding the documentation at this point is,
> should the documentation efforts be restarted first or should we first
> discuss potential new / changed features?=20
I think these don=E2=80=99t have to exclude each other. Important is to sta=
rt=20
reworking documentation with the pieces which are stable. For example on=20
Partial File Sharing.=20
> And by the latter, I'm not
> just talking about a clear definition of DHT / Mojito, but also about
> the years of academic research into Gnutella that has produced heaps of
> interesting findings.
I think these would be extremely valuable. I read some of the papers people=
=20
did using Phex, and they sound very useful:=20
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phex#Academic_Studies
Some examples (praise the wiyback machine!):=20
=E2=86=92=20
http://web.archive.org/web/20070927020644/http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/c.m=
ascolo/www/dasson07.pdf
=E2=86=92=20
http://web.archive.org/web/20070927020647/http://www.di.unito.it/~schifane/=
papers/networking06.pdf
Also there was at least one paper on greedy routing for Gnutella.=20
(some results via google:=20
http://scholar.google.de/scholar?q=3Dgnutella+greedy+routing&hl=3Dde&as_sdt=
=3D0&as_vis=3D1&oi=3Dscholart=20
)
Best wishes,=20
Arne
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<p>Hi Michael, <br>
<br>
Am Mittwoch, 7. April 2010 01:11:51 schrieb Michael Green:<br>
> Wanted to reply earlier, but got caught up with the Digital Economy Bi=
ll<br>
> mess in the UK; Hopefully it'll be voted out tomorrow! Anyway ...<br>
<br>
No problem =E2=80=94 there is nasty stuff happening all around at the momen=
t (for <br>
example some people in the EU want to establish internet censorship after t=
he <br>
opposition of about the whole online community in Germany made it unfeasibl=
e <br>
to do netionally). <br>
<br>
> The strength<br>
> is that this will keep Gnutella resillient to data poisoning (includin=
g<br>
> DHT) -- simplified, look at it as a "majority vote": a poiso=
ned subset<br>
> will gradually be cleaned by the majority of the (overlapping) clean<b=
r>
> subsets.<br>
<br>
If I remember correctly, that only goes for popular content, but yes, I <br=
>
overlooked it. Thanks!<br>
<br>
> What purpose will Gnutella have in the future?<br>
<br>
That=E2=80=99s a hard one. <br>
<br>
I see several options: <br>
<br>
=E2=80=A2 An integral part of a *connected* semantic desktop. Gnutella is h=
eavily <br>
optimized for fuzzy tag based searching, so it could perfectly deliver a =
=E2=80=9Cfind <br>
similar files by metadata=E2=80=9D functionality, and the DHT can deliver =
=E2=80=9Cwhat other <br>
people say about this file=E2=80=9D. <br>
<br>
=E2=80=A2 A general download accellerator via the download mesh (only needs=
the sha1 <br>
and a tigertree, but no central server). <br>
<br>
=E2=80=A2 A general information query network. Skype has that =E2=80=9Csear=
ch for people=E2=80=9D <br>
functionality, and Gnutella could supply that for Jabber, if people would <=
br>
cache the data of those of their friends who want to be searchable (so peop=
le <br>
can be found as long as only one friend is online). <br>
<br>
=E2=80=A2 A very efficient p2p filesharing system (that=E2=80=99s an import=
ant one we shouldn=E2=80=99t <br>
forget). <br>
<br>
=E2=80=A2 An anonymous filesharing system (routed over i2p). <br>
<br>
=E2=80=A2 A p2p podcast-to-radio solution (for some ideas see <br>
<a href=3D"http://gnuticles.gnufu.net/magma.html">http://gnuticles.<wbr>gnu=
fu.net/<wbr>magma.html</a> )<br>
<br>
> As for the other two weaknesses, which is the difficulty to implement =
a<br>
> new servent and lack of integration (whether desktop or mobile), I can=
<br>
> only attribute that to a lack of, or fragmentation of the documentatio=
n.<br>
<br>
Maybe it would be useful to write a =E2=80=9CHow to implement a basic Gnute=
lla <br>
servent=E2=80=9D. <br>
<br>
Firstoff just going for a simple leaf node, so people can quickly experimen=
t <br>
with it. A fullblown Gnutella servent might take years to write, but how ha=
rd <br>
would it be to write a basic leaf-only servent? <br>
<br>
I wanted to do something similar for quite some time, but never got over th=
e <br>
initial steps of creating a working Python based Gnutella servent =E2=80=94=
got <br>
sidetracked by other projects. <br>
<br>
> My only consideration regarding the documentation at this point is,<br=
>
> should the documentation efforts be restarted first or should we first=
<br>
> discuss potential new / changed features? <br>
<br>
I think these don=E2=80=99t have to exclude each other. Important is to sta=
rt <br>
reworking documentation with the pieces which are stable. For example on <b=
r>
Partial File Sharing. <br>
<br>
> And by the latter, I'm not<br>
> just talking about a clear definition of DHT / Mojito, but also about<=
br>
> the years of academic research into Gnutella that has produced heaps o=
f<br>
> interesting findings.<br>
<br>
I think these would be extremely valuable. I read some of the papers people=
<br>
did using Phex, and they sound very useful: <br>
<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phex#Academic_Studies">http://en.wi=
kipedia<wbr>.org/wiki/<wbr>Phex#Academic_<wbr>Studies</a><br>
<br>
Some examples (praise the wiyback machine!): <br>
=E2=86=92 <br>
<a href=3D"http://web.archive.org/web/20070927020644/http://www.cs.ucl.ac.u=
k/staff/c.mascolo/www/dasson07.pdf">http://web.archive.<wbr>org/web/2007092=
7<wbr>020644/http:<wbr>//www.cs.<wbr>ucl.ac.uk/<wbr>staff/c.mascolo/<wbr>ww=
w/dasson07.<wbr>pdf</a><br>
=E2=86=92 <br>
<a href=3D"http://web.archive.org/web/20070927020647/http://www.di.unito.it=
/~schifane/papers/networking06.pdf">http://web.archive.<wbr>org/web/2007092=
7<wbr>020647/http:<wbr>//www.di.<wbr>unito.it/<wbr>~schifane/<wbr>papers/ne=
tworkin<wbr>g06.pdf</a><br>
<br>
Also there was at least one paper on greedy routing for Gnutella. <br>
(some results via google: <br>
<a href=3D"http://scholar.google.de/scholar?q=3Dgnutella+greedy+routing&=
;hl=3Dde&as_sdt=3D0&as_vis=3D1&oi=3Dscholart">http://scholar.<w=
br>google.de/<wbr>scholar?q=3D<wbr>gnutella+<wbr>greedy+routing&=
;<wbr>hl=3Dde&as_<wbr>sdt=3D0&as_<wbr>vis=3D1&oi=3D<wbr>scholar=
t</a> <br>
)<br>
<br>
Best wishes, <br>
Arne<br>
<br>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br>
<br>
</p>
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