Re: strengths and weaknesses of Gnutella
Arne Babenhauserheide <[email protected]> Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:26:49 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.network.gnutella.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
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Am Montag, 12. April 2010 22:39:33 schrieb Bill Pringlemeir:
> I think any reg-ex type of search suffers a barrier to entry for general
> consumption. This is better solved using the 'user community' approach
> previously suggested. I was wondering about a 'gnutella library list'
> that users could share collaboratively. The list would group content
> according to some general interest.=20=20
I don=E2=80=99t think I really understand what you propose =E2=80=94 and ho=
w it is contrary to=20
allowing more complex searches=E2=80=A6=20
How would the list group content, and would the users have to work to achie=
ve=20
the grouping?=20
We have no strong identities in Gnutella, so how can we build trust in a=20
grouping which requires (a lot of) work? But which at the same time would b=
e=20
of interest to spammers.=20
> A distributed repo (ala git et
> others) type structure with reputation awareness (credence)=20
Credence is a great idea, but it isn=E2=80=99t yet integrated (anyhow). Sad=
ly, since=20
it worked quite well for me, and it could have eradicated spam once and for=
=20
all.=20
> would allow
> the creation of a list with 'meta descriptions' and SHA hashes. This
> lists would be share by interested users (alt-locs).=20=20
Do you mean, enhancing the meta-data with shared data? A list of sha hashes=
=20
with associated metadata?=20
Somehow retaining what I think about content in that list and then sharing =
it?=20
How could we avoid having it grow without bounds?=20
(is there something other than dropping less interesting/popular content?)
And couldn=E2=80=99t something close to that be achieved by storing that da=
ta in the=20
DHT?=20
Or do you mean, sending the lists around between people who download the sa=
me=20
content?=20
=E2=80=9Chey, I saw you also download that file, and I thought you could be=
interested=20
in this here, too=E2=80=9D
> The list itself
> would be searchable using reg-ex, or simply 'browsed' by the less compute=
r
> literate.
As soon as it=E2=80=99s local, it could be searched in any number of ways =
=E2=80=94 only=20
limited by the individual programmers creativity :)=20
It could even be used by other local services, like music players which wan=
t=20
to find similar artists for a music file to select the next track.=20
But this would mean aggregating more data at the individual node, leading t=
o a=20
bigger footprint (though my Amarok can efficiently manage metadata for 30 G=
iB of=20
music, so the limit isn=E2=80=99t that low).=20
And where is the fundamental difference between adding regexp here and addi=
ng=20
it (or a simple version with google-like searches) as option to the protoco=
l?=20
Best wishes,=20
Arne
PS: Sidenote: I think that the more intelligent searches idea by Michael is=
=20
very nice and looks like it could integrate very efficiently, even taking l=
egacy=20
servents into account which don=E2=80=99t implement it (efficiently includi=
ng the=20
results they send).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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<p>Am Montag, 12. April 2010 22:39:33 schrieb Bill Pringlemeir:<br>
> I think any reg-ex type of search suffers a barrier to entry for gener=
al<br>
> consumption. This is better solved using the 'user community' approac=
h<br>
> previously suggested. I was wondering about a 'gnutella library list'=
<br>
> that users could share collaboratively. The list would group content<=
br>
> according to some general interest. <br>
<br>
I don=E2=80=99t think I really understand what you propose =E2=80=94 and ho=
w it is contrary to <br>
allowing more complex searches=E2=80=A6 <br>
<br>
How would the list group content, and would the users have to work to achie=
ve <br>
the grouping? <br>
<br>
We have no strong identities in Gnutella, so how can we build trust in a <b=
r>
grouping which requires (a lot of) work? But which at the same time would b=
e <br>
of interest to spammers. <br>
<br>
> A distributed repo (ala git et<br>
> others) type structure with reputation awareness (credence) <br>
<br>
Credence is a great idea, but it isn=E2=80=99t yet integrated (anyhow). Sad=
ly, since <br>
it worked quite well for me, and it could have eradicated spam once and for=
<br>
all. <br>
<br>
> would allow<br>
> the creation of a list with 'meta descriptions' and SHA hashes. This<=
br>
> lists would be share by interested users (alt-locs). <br>
<br>
Do you mean, enhancing the meta-data with shared data? A list of sha hashes=
<br>
with associated metadata? <br>
Somehow retaining what I think about content in that list and then sharing =
it? <br>
<br>
How could we avoid having it grow without bounds? <br>
(is there something other than dropping less interesting/<wbr>popular conte=
nt?)<br>
<br>
And couldn=E2=80=99t something close to that be achieved by storing that da=
ta in the <br>
DHT? <br>
<br>
Or do you mean, sending the lists around between people who download the sa=
me <br>
content? <br>
<br>
=E2=80=9Chey, I saw you also download that file, and I thought you could be=
interested <br>
in this here, too=E2=80=9D<br>
<br>
> The list itself<br>
> would be searchable using reg-ex, or simply 'browsed' by the less comp=
uter<br>
> literate.<br>
<br>
As soon as it=E2=80=99s local, it could be searched in any number of ways =
=E2=80=94 only <br>
limited by the individual programmers creativity :) <br>
<br>
It could even be used by other local services, like music players which wan=
t <br>
to find similar artists for a music file to select the next track. <br>
<br>
But this would mean aggregating more data at the individual node, leading t=
o a <br>
bigger footprint (though my Amarok can efficiently manage metadata for 30 G=
iB of <br>
music, so the limit isn=E2=80=99t that low). <br>
<br>
And where is the fundamental difference between adding regexp here and addi=
ng <br>
it (or a simple version with google-like searches) as option to the protoco=
l? <br>
<br>
Best wishes, <br>
Arne<br>
<br>
PS: Sidenote: I think that the more intelligent searches idea by Michael is=
<br>
very nice and looks like it could integrate very efficiently, even taking l=
egacy <br>
servents into account which don=E2=80=99t implement it (efficiently includi=
ng the <br>
results they send).<br>
<br>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br>
<br>
</p>
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#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: 700;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
a {
color: #1e66ae;
}
#actions {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 11px;
padding: 10px 0;
}
#activity {
background-color: #e0ecee;
float: left;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
padding: 10px;
}
#activity span {
font-weight: 700;
}
#activity span:first-child {
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#activity span a {
color: #5085b6;
text-decoration: none;
}
#activity span span {
color: #ff7900;
}
#activity span .underline {
text-decoration: underline;
}
.attach {
clear: both;
display: table;
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 12px;
padding: 10px 0;
width: 400px;
}
.attach div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
.attach img {
border: none;
padding-right: 5px;
}
.attach label {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}
.attach label a {
text-decoration: none;
}
=20=20
blockquote {
margin: 0 0 0 4px;
}
.bold {
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;
font-weight: 700;
}
.bold a {
text-decoration: none;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.fi=
le-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div=
.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
.green {
color: #628c2a;
}
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
o {
font-size: 0;
}
#photos div {
float: left;
width: 72px;
}
#photos div div {
border: 1px solid #666666;
height: 62px;
overflow: hidden;
width: 62px;
}
#photos div label {
color: #666666;
font-size: 10px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
white-space: nowrap;
width: 64px;
}
#reco-category {
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc {
font-size: 77%;
}
.replbq {
margin: 4px;
}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
/* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
margin-right: 2px;
padding-right: 5px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size: 13px;
font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
*font-size: small;
*font: x-small;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg a {
color: #1E66AE;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}=20
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;=20
}=20
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->
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