Re: Improving the WHOIS format

--001517592c26c1395d04b69aae21
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 6:09 AM, David Romano <
[email protected]> wrote:

> The quotation I cited shows that you can describe the relationship between
> a
> person and a person as a joined-to one. Are you saying that the noun in the
> prepositional phrase isn't permitted to refer to a group (e.g, us), and
> that
> the joined-to relationship in the quotation is only acceptable when the
> subject and the prepositional phrase both denote a single person? I.e., are
> you saying "X is joined to too many channels" is a person related to a
> group
> of people, and since a group of people isn't singular, my quotation doesn't
> apply? I didn't consider that distinction as relevant, but was focusing on
> the
> 'join to' part of the question itself. I regard an IRC channel as an object
> denoting a group of people, not the group of people per se. So our
> disagreement is on semantics. We are disagreeing of if the channel *is* the
> group of people or *is a represention for* the group of people. So until we
> agree on what a channel is, I think we'll be arguing past each other.
>

You wouldn't attach yourself to any "representation" of a group of people,
would you now?

As for this discussion, I'll summarize my argument: You can't justify your
> position using Google counts and ignore Google's method of composing those
> counts. That's like saying you don't care how unemployment by the U.S.
> Bureau
> of Labor Statistics is measured, you are just concerned about the number
> they
> state as unemployed. Understanding the methodology that produces a result
> is
> Research 101 (or at the very least Statistics 101). You don't know the
> methodology but you're making conclusions about the results. That's just
> not
> good.
>

Well, what can we do. Google's inner workings is a trade secret. I never
claimed those numbers were accurate anyhow. For instance, "join a channel"
would also match "you should join. A channel is what it is". They do,
however, give you an idea of what's more commonly used.

In real research, I'd probably use something like:

% dict channel

From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (26 July 2010) [foldoc]:

  channel
  chat room
  room

     <chat> (Or "chat room", "room", depending on the system in
     question) The basic unit of group discussion in {chat} systems
     like {IRC}.  Once one joins a channel, everything one types is
     read by others on that channel.  Channels can either be named
     with numbers or with strings that begin with a "#" sign and
     can have topic descriptions (which are generally irrelevant to
     the actual subject of discussion).

     Some notable channels are "#initgame", "#hottub" and
     "#report".  At times of international crisis, "#report" has
     hundreds of members, some of whom take turns listening to
     various news services and typing in summaries of the news, or
     in some cases, giving first-hand accounts of the action
     (e.g. Scud missile attacks in Tel Aviv during the Gulf War in
     1991).

     [{Jargon File}]

     (1998-01-25)


--Dwayne
http://wearebuild.com +44(0)208 521 1040
(Vimeo<http://vimeo.com/wearebuild/videos>
)

--001517592c26c1395d04b69aae21
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 6:09 AM, David Romano <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:david.romano%[email protected]">david.romano+irssi-users@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The quotation I cited shows that you can des=
cribe the relationship between a<br>
person and a person as a joined-to one. Are you saying that the noun in the=
<br>
prepositional phrase isn&#39;t permitted to refer to a group (e.g, us), and=
 that<br>
the joined-to relationship in the quotation is only acceptable when the<br>
subject and the prepositional phrase both denote a single person? I.e., are=
<br>
you saying &quot;X is joined to too many channels&quot; is a person related=
 to a group<br>
of people, and since a group of people isn&#39;t singular, my quotation doe=
sn&#39;t<br>
apply? I didn&#39;t consider that distinction as relevant, but was focusing=
 on the<br>
&#39;join to&#39; part of the question itself. I regard an IRC channel as a=
n object<br>
denoting a group of people, not the group of people per se. So our<br>
disagreement is on semantics. We are disagreeing of if the channel *is* the=
<br>
group of people or *is a represention for* the group of people. So until we=
<br>
agree on what a channel is, I think we&#39;ll be arguing past each other.<b=
r></blockquote><div><br>You wouldn&#39;t attach yourself to any &quot;repre=
sentation&quot; of a group of people, would you now?<br><br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">As for this discussion, I&#39;ll summarize my argument: Y=
ou can&#39;t justify your<br></div>
position using Google counts and ignore Google&#39;s method of composing th=
ose<br>
counts. That&#39;s like saying you don&#39;t care how unemployment by the U=
.S. Bureau<br>
of Labor Statistics is measured, you are just concerned about the number th=
ey<br>
state as unemployed. Understanding the methodology that produces a result i=
s<br>
Research 101 (or at the very least Statistics 101). You don&#39;t know the<=
br>
methodology but you&#39;re making conclusions about the results. That&#39;s=
 just not<br>
good.<br></blockquote><div><br>Well, what can we do. Google&#39;s inner wor=
kings is a trade secret. I never claimed those numbers were accurate anyhow=
. For instance, &quot;join a channel&quot; would also match &quot;you shoul=
d join. A channel is what it is&quot;. They do, however, give you an idea o=
f what&#39;s more commonly used.<br>
<br>In real research, I&#39;d probably use something like:<br><br>% dict ch=
annel<br><br>From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (26 July 2010) [=
foldoc]:<br><br>=A0 channel<br>=A0 chat room<br>=A0 room<br><br>=A0=A0=A0=
=A0 &lt;chat&gt; (Or &quot;chat room&quot;, &quot;room&quot;, depending on =
the system in<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 question) The basic unit of group discussion in {chat} systems=
<br>=A0=A0=A0=A0 like {IRC}.=A0 Once one joins a channel, everything one ty=
pes is<br>=A0=A0=A0=A0 read by others on that channel.=A0 Channels can eith=
er be named<br>=A0=A0=A0=A0 with numbers or with strings that begin with a =
&quot;#&quot; sign and<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 can have topic descriptions (which are generally irrelevant to=
<br>=A0=A0=A0=A0 the actual subject of discussion).<br><br>=A0=A0=A0=A0 Som=
e notable channels are &quot;#initgame&quot;, &quot;#hottub&quot; and<br>=
=A0=A0=A0=A0 &quot;#report&quot;.=A0 At times of international crisis, &quo=
t;#report&quot; has<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 hundreds of members, some of whom take turns listening to<br>=
=A0=A0=A0=A0 various news services and typing in summaries of the news, or<=
br>=A0=A0=A0=A0 in some cases, giving first-hand accounts of the action<br>=
=A0=A0=A0=A0 (e.g. Scud missile attacks in Tel Aviv during the Gulf War in<=
br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 1991).<br><br>=A0=A0=A0=A0 [{Jargon File}]<br><br>=A0=A0=A0=A0=
 (1998-01-25)<br><br><br>--Dwayne<br><a href=3D"http://wearebuild.com/" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://wearebuild.com</a> <a href=3D"tel:%2B44%280%29208%205=
21%201040" value=3D"+442085211040" target=3D"_blank">+44(0)208 521 1040</a>=
 (<a href=3D"http://vimeo.com/wearebuild/videos" target=3D"_blank">Vimeo</a=
>)<br>
</div></div></div>

--001517592c26c1395d04b69aae21--