Re: Extending the roster item element

Goffi <[email protected]> Thu, 13 Nov 2025 08:25:36 +0100
Newsgroups	gmane.network.jabber.standards-jig
Message-ID	<5952877.DvuYhMxLoT@tazar3>
Hi,

XEP-0312 is not needed at all, we have MAM and we get notifications for any 
change in a pubsub node (if we are subscribed of course). I actually think 
that XEP-0312 should be obsoleted.

I'm known for being a pubsub advocate, but pubsub brings out of the boxes end-
to-end encryption, and indeed we can roll-it out immediately.

However, I'm not strictly opposed to the roster with extension options either, 
but we need to have end-to-end encryption for metadata not directly needed by 
the server (i.e.; everything but JID and presence subscription). And I'm 
afraid too that this can take years.

Best,
Goffi

Le mercredi 12 novembre 2025, 19:58:00 heure normale d’Europe centrale Philipp 
Hörist a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> I think we need a list of JIDs where we can store data per JID.
> 
> What i would expect for this list is
> 
> - It can contain any JID
> - Notifications on changes of single items
> - Version support, i want to be able to only request the latest changes 
since version XX
> 
> Option 1:
> Extending the Roster and put also group chats in it
> 
> - Seems to have everything we need
> - Historically clients expect no group chats in the roster, even though not 
strictly disallowed by the RFC. (At least i did not find anything). If 
backwards compat is a goal, this is probably not a good option
> - Takes probably years to role out because of explicit server support needed
> - Clients would need to implement fallbacks for missing server support for 
years or forever depending if all servers adapt this or not -> This brings us 
to a chicken-egg problem, as clients have an incentive not implement before 
broad server support
> 
> Option 2:
> Splitting the data between Roster and Bookmarks
> 
> - Complexity pushed to clients to merge different stores with different 
capabilities
> - Pubsub versioning would be nice (XEP-0312), how good is this supported? 
Its not strictly a requirement just an optimization
> - Use cases like very natural follow ups like, define a order between pinned 
chats probably complex to implement if data split across multiple stores
> - Takes probably years to role out because of explicit server support needed
> - Clients would need to implement fallbacks for missing server support for 
years or forever depending if all servers adapt this or not -> This brings us 
to a chicken-egg problem, as clients have an incentive not implement before 
broad server support
> 
> Option 3:
> Using only Pubsub
> 
> - No server support needed, clients could immediately role out support
> - Pubsub versioning would be nice (XEP-0312), how good is this supported? 
Its not strictly a requirement just an optimization
> 
> 
> Regards
> Philipp
> 
>  
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