Re: [opennic-discuss] [RECOUNT] Opinions and allegations in proposals

Just because I used the word "write-in" instead of "invalid" by accident means the vote doesn't count?

--

-Dan Q


On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:35:22 +0100, Sebastian Makowiecki <[email protected]> wrote:

> I also think it is unacceptable not to count the invalid votes. I find the current discussion disgusting and unnecessary, after all it is so easy to count and include invalid votes, unless of course one is unwilling to do so as a direct result of one's ill will and some kind of strange act of stubbornness.
> 
> I also find voting on invalidating previous votes very strange procedure that should only be used in extreme and special cases, circumstantial, never to be overused.
> 
> I sort of gave up on the idea that certain individuals involved in the matter will ever change their attitude, because it's nothing more than that, an attitude issue. There is no real issue here, after all the rules of voting are extremely straightforward, but this relies heavily on the fact one WANTS to understand and participate and don't insists otherwise.
> 
> But you are right Philipp, the cause is worth fighting for.
> 
> The accusations of 'trolling', abuses and advising someone to 'just go away' are troublesome at best, much worse at the worst, nevertheless are also a symptom of much deeper underlying problem.
> 
> The constant and unnecessary influx of clutter into my inbox containing nothing but personal issues of some distant individual is only annoying at best, something else at the worst, but certainly attention and time consuming. Harsh but true.
> 
> I said plenty times: 'stop this nonsense' and I am willing to say it one more time, for the sake of democracy.
> 
> Just chill, take a deep breath, everything is going to be just fine.
> 
> ~ 
> Sebastian Makowiecki
> 
> On 16 August 2018 08:00:38 GMT+01:00, Philipp Schafft <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Good morning,
> >
> >On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 02:44 -0400, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:
> >> What the hell do you want of me? Everything is listed and counted,
> >and
> >> displayed below. I have never heard of an "invalid" vote which was
> >not
> >> a "write in".
> >
> >What does you make sure that things you haven't heard about don't
> >exist?
> >
> >
> >> I counted every vote, yours listed and spelled out entirely,
> >
> >I'm very happy and grateful that you quoted it. Something you don't
> >have
> >to do.
> >
> >Yet you quoted my *vote* under "Write-ins".
> >
> >
> >> and per the procedures we approved the voting started at 8/9/2018
> >0030
> >> UTC and ended at 8/16/2018 0030 UTC, both of which were clearly
> >listed
> >> in the proposal, and no votes were cast outside that period
> >> regardless.
> >
> >I just gave another example of how do do incorrectly. one that was
> >purly
> >to illustrate my comment.
> >
> >
> >> If you think breaking the rules we established is "rigging" then you
> >> clearly have a problem with OpenNIC, not me. How can I get you off my
> >> ass?
> >
> >I have both a personal problem as well as a problem in my role(s) with
> >who tries to remove democracy from OpenNIC.
> >
> >You have broken the rules several times and have been told so. What is
> >the result? You try to find new creative ways not not stick to the
> >rules
> >but work around. "Write-in" is just a new way of not accepting our
> >votes. Why not just accept votes as they are? It's not your part to
> >interpret those or to re-categorized them. They are votes, thats it.
> >period.
> >
> >I also must say that I feel personally offended by your language. Words
> >like "trolling" and "ass" are clearly not words of someone who leads a
> >democratic group such as OpenNIC by providing input in form of
> >proposals
> >to correct it's direction.
> >
> >
> >> What do you want?
> >
> >I want OpenNIC to not demolish it's pillars and legitimacy. And I fight
> >for it. I do this by protesting and by offering help, explaining the
> >situation, and talking to people.
> >
> >I spend my spare time, which I have not much of, to try to make OpenNIC
> >not forgot what it is and what it stands for.
> >
> >Why not join me? All of you! Why not stand by what OpenNIC was founded
> >on, what OpenNIC fought for, what made OpenNIC a respectable project
> >and
> >a part of world's democratic landscape?
> >
> >The grass my not be greener here, but it tastes better.
> >
> >Let's not decay OpenNIC.
> >
> >With best regards,
> >
> >
> >> --
> >> 
> >> -Dan Q
> >> 
> >> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:06:13 +0000, Philipp Schafft
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Good morning,
> >> > 
> >> > On Wed, 2018-08-15 at 20:35 -0400, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:
> >> > > Apologies, Niles' vote got detached from the thread because he at
> >first sent it to me directly by accident. The result is the same.
> >> > > 
> >> > > Yes:
> >> > >  
> >> > > Daniel Quintiliani
> >> > >  
> >> > > No:
> >> > >  
> >> > > Amunak
> >> > > Megan Parat
> >> > > Dennis Emory Hannon
> >> > > Verax
> >> > > Niles Rogoff
> >> > > 
> >> > > Write-ins:
> >> > >  
> >> > > Philipp Schafft: "Wer von seinen Ängsten geleitet wird, wird die
> >Schönheit des
> >> > > Tages nicht erkennen."
> >> > >  
> >> > > kevin: "Ki a félelmei irányítják, nem ismerik fel a nap
> >> > > szépségét."
> >> > > 
> >> > > Yes: 1
> >> > > No: 5
> >> > > Write in "Wer...": 1
> >> > > Write in "Ki...": 1
> >> > > 
> >> > > This proposal failed to pass with 1-5.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > > All write-ins have been listed in this post, so no need to troll.
> >> > 
> >> > Then why do you troll by not counting votes?
> >> > 
> >> > I have not submitted a write-in, I have voted invalid as made
> >clearly by
> >> > me writing "My vote is:".
> >> > 
> >> > What is your problem with just counting votes as they are?
> >> > 
> >> > Not counting votes you don't like is not the way voting works. Why
> >not
> >> > also just not count "no"-votes? Or votes made between 07:03 UTC and
> >> > 14:23 UTC?
> >> > 
> >> > Voting means to count *all* votes.
> >> > 
> >> > With people having told you this before I hardly see any other way
> >than
> >> > calling this active vote rigging by you. Something that, in a real
> >> > democracy, would invalidate the voting entirely.
> >> > 
> >> > Sadly OpenNIC seems to not stand for democracy as it used to
> >before. It
> >> > used to be one of the main pillars of OpenNIC and was often
> >referred to
> >> > as what gives OpenNIC it's legitimation over e.g. ICANN. If this
> >pillar
> >> > is destroyed I see the value of OpenNIC itself being destroyed and
> >it's
> >> > legitimation to exist with it.
> >> > 
> >> > With best regards,
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > > 
> >> > > --
> >> > > 
> >> > > -Dan Q
> >> > > 
> >> > > 
> >> > > On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 20:30:37 -0400 (EDT), "Daniel Quintiliani"
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > 
> >> > > > 
> >> > > > On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 20:28:01 -0400 (EDT), "Daniel Quintiliani"
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > > 
> >> > > > > Voting starts: 8/9/2018 0030 UTC
> >> > > > > Voting ends: 8/16/2018 0030 UTC
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > OpenNIC proposals shall not contain, in full or in part,
> >language which:
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > * Praises an OpenNIC member on basis of their character or
> >actions,
> >> > > > > * Condemns an OpenNIC member on basis of their character or
> >actions,
> >> > > > > * Makes allegations of unethical or illegal activity by an
> >OpenNIC member, unless confirmed by a court of law, and/or
> >> > > > > * Criticizes or comments on a proposal or vote, past or
> >present, whether passed or failed, in which an OpenNIC member is
> >criticized on basis of their character or actions.
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > The proposal shall take effect immediately after passing.
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > These rules are only applicable to proposals put up for vote,
> >not to mailing list or IRC discussion.
> >> > 
> >> > -- 
> >> > Philipp.
> >> >  (Rah of PH2)
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > --------
> >> > You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. 
> >> > You may unsubscribe by emailing
> >[email protected]
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --------
> >> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. 
> >> You may unsubscribe by emailing
> >[email protected]
> >
> >-- 
> >Philipp.
> > (Rah of PH2)
> 
> 
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