Re: [opennic-discuss] On Daniel Quintiliani's thoughts [WAS: Re: [DE] Es ist traurig...]

While the ciphered on-screen messages are in theory the same on every screen, filtered through each individual's perception mechanisms are a subject of subjective interpretation.

~ 
Sebastian Makowiecki

On 16 August 2018 13:48:57 GMT+01:00, kevin <[email protected]> wrote:
>It doesn't matter how many times I translate the original German post
>and how many times I read it, that no where do I see there being any
>threats of violence.  Maybe my google translate translates different...
>
>I also find it interesting that there appear to be many members from
>different (states? and) countries that understand what a spoiled ballot
>is.  That's not to say that some won't understand, but it seems to be
>generally understood within global voting systems.
>
>Which leads me back to when I stated that we need to first consider
>that there has not been established a legal country or state of origin
>for openNIC, if there is any desire to legally uphold any governance in
>respect to the real world.  That this "democracy" that we are chasing
>is more an exercise of academics than real world functionality.  We are
>wanting functional democracy when even in the real world, it doesn't
>properly exist, regardless of anyone's assertion to the contrary.
>
>I will take this back yet further to where I suggested that, for those
>who are interested in directly competing with ICANN, please feel free
>to form a "committee" and take the openNIC framework, create the
>necessary governance decrees, and move forward as an independent group
>seeking that goal.  Still part of the openNIC community and using the
>openNIC core and framework, but with very specific goals, and not
>directly involving the other members who are not interested in that
>goal, leaving the community at large to continue working on its own
>goals. ie. Like any commercial company taking open source software /
>technology and building a business around it.  I could possibly support
>that group, that would stand alone as it's own legal entity, I think.
> For the most part in principle, anyhow.  Until such time that it
>simply became another ICANN.
>
>Kevin
>
>
>
>On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 11:53 +0000, Philipp Schafft wrote:
>> Good afternoon,
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 07:01 -0400, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:
>> > 
>> > It's not my translation, it's Google's translation. Blame their
>> > faulty
>> > algorithms for being "unkind" and "flooding".
>> Their algorithms have not posted to my thread.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > I simply copied and pasted it because nobody was understanding me
>> > when
>> > I thought it was violent.
>> Why did you think so in the first place? There was no reason to do
>> so.
>> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Is there any way you can leave me alone and not have a problem with
>> > me? What do I have to do so you can leave me alone? 
>> I have no personal problem with you at all. I'm also not targeting
>> your
>> person.
>> 
>> I'm here to hold the banner of democracy up. With the other banners
>> OpenNIC considers important.
>> 
>> And as clearly visible in the archives, I have done so in the past
>> when
>> other persons worked on what I consider fatal erosion on OpenNIC's
>> foundation.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > I'm getting really tired of this. I've missed at least 2 family
>> > get-togethers over the past month because I'm too scared of what
>> > people here will do to me if I'm not right on time with the votes.
>> > I
>> > am having a hard time sleeping too because of OpenNIC, and health
>> > issues which randomly appeared this week aren't any help.
>> I'm sorry to hear about this. And I wish you the best with your
>> health
>> problems.
>> 
>> All I can suggest here is that you slow down. This is one of the
>> things
>> I spoke in my text about. That rushing things is often a bad idea.
>> This
>> has nothing to do with you, or even OpenNIC. Just that rushing things
>> isn't how the world works.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > No matter what I try to do to either (1) please everyone or (2) try
>> > and put everything behind us and peace, someone finds some fault
>> > with
>> > it and uses it to attack me.
>> The point here is that it doesn't feel that way. I noticed that your
>> behavior changed. I also think that there there are aspects pointing
>> to
>> the right direction.
>> 
>> Yet I still see there many problems. All I can suggest you to allow
>> yourself a cool down. Why not e.g. ask someone else to count the
>> votes?
>> This way it's not your problem anymore. If you don't count them at
>> all,
>> you can't be blamed for doing wrong.
>> 
>> And in a democratic voting there is only one correct result from the
>> counting. Therefore it's of no relevance who counts.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > I am scared. I don't know if there will be a proposal to target me
>> > with something.
>> As hard as this one might sound, but: You did that against others.
>> And
>> things might or might come back to oneself.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > I cannot honestly believe you legitimately compare about democracy.
>> > You are a troll plain and simple.
>> You are attacking me personally again.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > You speak and post threads in foreign languages just to aggravate
>> > me.
>> Which is a offending allegation. How did you know? Over here people
>> nee
>> to prove such claims. If they can't... according to German law there
>> can
>> be up to five years of jail. This is not some minor thing. If you
>> raise
>> your voice like this, prove it!
>> 
>> What I did was commenting on the events of the day. In fact I used a
>> style that is commonly used to ask people to reflect. I actually
>> hoped
>> for no reply to my thread.
>> 
>> Also I did post in German (I don't see how the Internet has "foreign"
>> languages, this doesn't make sense to me) with your own approval. You
>> have acknowledged the use of non-English languages in discussions
>> yourself.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > You nitpick because I used the wrong word.
>> I insist on the correct term to be used AND the correct counting to
>> be
>> applied. This is what I did.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > You randomly make something up three days after a proposal passes
>> > that
>> > I'm a day off when I provide a paper trail going back to last month
>> > to
>> > prove you wrong.
>> Such as?
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > Particularly a proposal which was intended to cause peace, and 10
>> > people agreed and were convinced that we would put this behind us.
>> > But
>> > no, someone has to troll me, speak foreign languages, use
>> > accusations
>> > of fraud, dishonesty crimes, and everything else, deliberately
>> > changing election procedures clarified months ago.
>> And now you switched from "you" to "someone".
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > I want all of you to go away. I want you to let me sleep again. I
>> > want
>> > to go on in my life and not have to skip real life events because
>> > I'm
>> > scared to death.
>> Again: Go and have your cool down. You can press the power button of
>> your computer any time you like.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > Most people agree that this should be over,
>> And I'm one of them. I would be very happy if OpenNIC could actually
>> solve it's real problems. There is this request of Homepage update,
>> and
>> I'm sure there is some random server failing to do some task.
>> 
>> If you are good in HTML I openly invite you to take care of the
>> Homepage
>> update request. I think it would be a nice way to get out of this
>> pit.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > it's only like 3 trolls who are constantly dragging us back into
>> > this
>> > garbage, and no matter what we do, find something to make fun of
>> > people and get people angry on purpose and then claim their
>> > trolling
>> > is in the interest of democracy.
>> Stop calling people trolls that upload standards or do political
>> protest. This is disrespectful to no end.
>> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > They count the votes anyway, and get the same results.
>> If you refer to my message <[email protected]>
>> here, then: We didn't came to the same results.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > Except when they
>> > "misscount" [sic]
>> Ha, nice find! Thank you. :)
>> 
>> This just proves that people ("they") on this list are often no
>> native
>> speakers. And therefore a fixation on the English language is counter
>> to
>> a society that welcomes people from all around the earth.
>> 
>> This is why it is important to allow threads like this -- commentary
>> on
>> the events of the day in a language different from English.
>> 
>> I very much support the claim that voting processes and important
>> information must be accessible to all. But this can not be done by
>> limiting as limiting is the opposite of making things more available.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > things their own way. You cannot give the President a third term by
>> > combining multiple differing invalid and/or write-in and/or spoiled
>> > and/or spoilt [sic] and/or potato salad and/or paragraph essay
>> > and/or
>> > town name votes into a single vote to cancel Election Day.
>> Nobody tried that. Please show it to me.
>> 
>> Also, it was a band name, not a town name (ref:
>> <[email protected]>).
>> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Please, please, please leave me alone. I dont know hwat to do. I
>> > dont
>> > know how to get you to leave me alone. I've done everything you
>> > asked
>> > for, gone out of my way to be kind, but not only is it never good
>> > enough, but it always results in mocking, trolling, and vicious
>> > retaliation. I just want to live my life and use the servers.
>> > Please
>> > please stop. What do I have to do?
>> > 
>> All I can suggest you is to get your self some fresh air. Enjoy your
>> life, go out and enjoy your winter/summer (I don't know where you are
>> from).
>> 
>> Then return in a few days as friend with open and kind words, and
>> without harsh and unreflected claims and words of disrespect.
>> 
>> I also repeat my invitation here: When you return I'm happy to work
>> with
>> you and Mr. Hanselka on the update of the website.
>> 
>> 
>> With kind regards and best wishes for your health,
>> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:29:46 +0000, Philipp Schafft
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > 
>> > > 
>> > > Good morning,
>> > > 
>> > > On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 04:22 -0400, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:
>> > > > 
>> > > > Like you did to me, I can reply to another message in my own
>> > language. You yourself said we have a human right to do so.
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > > Sure. But flooding the thread with off-topic discussion is unkind
>> > > at
>> > > best of no honor at worst.
>> > > 
>> > > Also claiming things not based on facts (my text) but fiction
>> > > (your
>> > > translation) is not. And it is forbidden in most nations of the
>> > world,
>> > > 
>> > > including in the one I live.
>> > > 
>> > > With best regards,
>> > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > --
>> > > > 
>> > > > -Dan Q
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:18:06 +0000, Philipp Schafft
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > You yourself acknowledged that discussion may be in any
>> > language. And
>> > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > this is more a letter to the public than the start of a
>> > discussion. Why
>> > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > not just follow your own acknowledgment and let this thread
>> > > > > be
>> > > > > undisturbed? Including undisturbed by translations that are
>> > > > > too
>> > poor to
>> > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > to be called a translation of the text and does not represent
>> > anything
>> > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > that is part of the on-topic discussion.
>> 
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