Re: [opennic-discuss] Vote to keep or drop peering with NameCoin

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I'm not getting this at all. :(

~ Ole

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 16:46:54 -0400 (EDT)
"Daniel Quintiliani" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Meaning that instead of maintaining a blacklist of .bit
> domains free for anyone to use, they sent people into the
> OpenNIC project to have a management role in the servers
> and made something specific for OpenNIC, not for
> themselves.
>=20
> --
>=20
> -Dan Q
>=20
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 16:36:44 -0400, Brian Greer
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> > AV software is free to use Spamhaus efforts, though. It
> > is not mandated by some government authority. That
> > communication happened at all should be seen as a
> > positive.=20
> >=20
> > It is a =E2=80=9Cgreater problem of the tech industry=E2=80=9D that
> > anybody actively fights against malware? I suggest that
> > allowing malware to run rampant would leave us little
> > worth protecting (or using). Again, I ask, what
> > pro-malware argument can you make? You are trying to
> > wrap this up as a morality argument, but I am
> > definitely not following it.=20
> > > On Jun 28, 2019, at 16:32, Daniel Quintiliani
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >=20
> > > Fusl (I think it was her) told me back then that not
> > > allowing Spamhaus to interfere in our business would
> > > result in consumer antivirus software blacklisting
> > > the entirety of OpenNIC. The "blacklist" was not a
> > > few suggestions to the OpenNIC project, but an
> > > actively maintained blacklist by company
> > > representatives.
> > >=20
> > > Spamhaus sending company representatives to
> > > administrative positions in the OpenNIC project is an
> > > example of the greater problem of the tech industry
> > > acting as church rather than company, as we are
> > > seeing with the ongoing censorship of political
> > > candidates, causes, and conspiracy theories. I was
> > > reading recently that Google does the same thing as
> > > what Spamhaus did to us: pay employees to work in
> > > partner nonprofits in place of itself.
> > >=20
> > > If companies would leave morality to the churches and
> > > instead focus on delivering profits to their
> > > shareholders, the world would be a much more peaceful
> > > place.
> > >=20
> > > --
> > >=20
> > > -Dan Q
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 16:00:43 -0400, Brian Greer
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:=20
> > >> By the word=E2=80=99s very definition, malware is intended
> > >> to cause harm. If it doesn=E2=80=99t cause harm, it isn=E2=80=99t
> > >> malware. What pro-malware argument can be made?
> > >>=20
> > >> Spamhaus provides lists that networks voluntarily
> > >> use. Presumably everyone could have decided to be
> > >> blacklisted and accept whatever consequences that
> > >> entails. Freedom is not a one way street.=20
> > >>=20
> > >>=20=20=20
> > >>> On Jun 27, 2019, at 22:05, Daniel Quintiliani
> > >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>=20
> > >>> I was using my own .bit domains frequently via
> > >>> OpenNIC, before I learned the Namecoin way and I do
> > >>> it that way now (which is better anyway for many
> > >>> reasons including security).
> > >>>=20
> > >>> I raised a "who the hell is Spamhaus and why are
> > >>> they telling us what to do" back when that
> > >>> happened, and voted against the optional blacklist.
> > >>> Fusl (I think) told me who Spamhaus were and why
> > >>> they mattered to OpenNIC.
> > >>>=20
> > >>> To me it's part of a greater problem - censorship
> > >>> from companies, especially in the tech industry,
> > >>> who are more concerned with morality than
> > >>> delivering a packet to its destination and a profit
> > >>> to their shareholders, in this case the morality of
> > >>> malware, ransom, and spam rather than the morality
> > >>> of political causes, politicians, and conspiracy
> > >>> theories.
> > >>>=20
> > >>> Don't know if anyone missed this question, I asked
> > >>> during the vote, and nobody answered me, the
> > >>> concerns with child pornography and malware that
> > >>> were brought up, aren't we protected by safe harbor
> > >>> laws like CDA 230 and the DMCA, and the equivalent
> > >>> of those in the EU and elsewhere?
> > >>>=20
> > >>> --
> > >>>=20
> > >>> -Dan Q
> > >>>=20
> > >>>=20
> > >>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:49:45 -0600, Jeff Taylor
> > >>> <[email protected]> wrote:=20
> > >>>> It's actually a little more complex than that.
> > >>>> From what I've been hearing it sounds like some
> > >>>> members of Namecoin appreciated the service while
> > >>>> others wanted to remain hidden.  There was also
> > >>>> quite a bit of controversy here on Opennic over
> > >>>> the subject.  Because of the anonymous nature
> > >>>> of .bit domains with absolutely no connection to a
> > >>>> real person, coupled with opennic's distribution
> > >>>> making it easy to use those domains, there were a
> > >>>> number of .bit domains being used to send malware
> > >>>> and other questionable content to other people's
> > >>>> computers.
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> This is where things got ugly...  We've had some
> > >>>> long discussions, both here on the mailing list
> > >>>> and on IRC chat.  Basically this centers around
> > >>>> the idea that everyone wants opennic to freely
> > >>>> resolve everything as intended without any
> > >>>> modifications.  However because of the .bit
> > >>>> domains being used to distribute malware they got
> > >>>> picked up by Spamhaus and the mail servers
> > >>>> attached to the same IPs as opennic DNS resolvers
> > >>>> were then blacklisted.  We worked with Spamhaus to
> > >>>> get a list of the domains they found problems
> > >>>> with, and that's when our own blacklist came to
> > >>>> be.  But this goes against the concept of opennic
> > >>>> resolving domains without interference.  There was
> > >>>> no argument that it should not be Spamhaus's place
> > >>>> to police the internet, and their methods were
> > >>>> essentially holding some of our servers 'hostage'
> > >>>> in an effort to force us to bend to their will,
> > >>>> but there was a lot of debate about whether or not
> > >>>> we *should*. The only compromise we could come to
> > >>>> was that the decision should be left up to the
> > >>>> individual T2 operators, with a method of
> > >>>> identifying which servers were making use of the
> > >>>> blacklist data to modify their results.
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> And so here we are today.  What it came down to
> > >>>> was that almost nobody in opennic is actually
> > >>>> using .bit domains, so a vote was called to see if
> > >>>> it was worth the effort to keep it around.
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> Hope that faithfully summarizes the history?
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> On 06/27/2019 02:16 AM, 'smee wrote:=20=20
> > >>>>> I also read the list but have yet to contribute
> > >>>>> anything, and I didn't vote. This issue and how
> > >>>>> it came up opened my eyes to a few things. On the
> > >>>>> face of it, it seems obvious. They don't want
> > >>>>> opennic handling .bit domains and it seems to be
> > >>>>> of no benefit to opennic to continue doing so.
> > >>>>> Being not that well versed in the subject, I
> > >>>>> decided to watch the discussion and learn more,
> > >>>>> but from the discussion, those two facts don't
> > >>>>> seem to have changed.
> > >>>>>=20
> > >>>>>=20
> > >>>>>=20
> > >>>>>=20
> > >>>>> On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 22:29 +0200, Al Beano
> > >>>>> wrote:=20=20
> > >>>>>> Like many others, I'm also alive and reading the
> > >>>>>> mailing list but didn't vote - mainly because
> > >>>>>> I'm away from home and things were going in my
> > >>>>>> favour anyway :-)
> > >>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>> Am 25. Juni 2019 17:48:17 MESZ, schrieb
> > >>>>>> [email protected]:=20=20
> > >>>>>>> Thanks for the update Jeff.
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>> So only 15 people are active on opennic =F0=9F=98=B2
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>> -----Mensaje original-----
> > >>>>>>> De: [email protected]
> > >>>>>>> <[email protected]> En
> > >>>>>>> nombre de Jeff Taylor Enviado el: martes, 25 de
> > >>>>>>> junio de 2019 09:29 a. m. Para: OpenNIC
> > >>>>>>> discussion <[email protected]>
> > >>>>>>> Asunto: Re: [opennic-discuss] Vote to keep or
> > >>>>>>> drop peering with NameCoin
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>> With a final vote of 13 to 2, the vote has
> > >>>>>>> ended in favor of dropping
> > >>>>>>> namecoin from opennic.  I will be updating the
> > >>>>>>> glue zone today to remove .bit, and updating
> > >>>>>>> the root zone to drop references to namecoin
> > >>>>>>> and emercoin.  Thanks to everyone who cast
> > >>>>>>> their vote.
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> > >>>>>>> -------
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>> --------
> > >>>>>>> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
> > >>>>>>> You may unsubscribe by emailing
> > >>>>>>> [email protected]=20=20
> > >>>>>> --------
> > >>>>>> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
> > >>>>>> You may unsubscribe by emailing
> > >>>>>> [email protected] ect.org
> > >>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>>=20
> > >>>>>> --------
> > >>>>>> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
> > >>>>>> You may unsubscribe by emailing
> > >>>>>> [email protected]=20=20
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> --------
> > >>>> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.=20
> > >>>> You may unsubscribe by emailing
> > >>>> [email protected]=20=20
> > >>>=20
> > >>>=20
> > >>>=20
> > >>>=20
> > >>> --------
> > >>> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.=20
> > >>> You may unsubscribe by emailing
> > >>> [email protected]=20=20
> > >>=20
> > >>=20
> > >> --------
> > >> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.=20
> > >> You may unsubscribe by emailing
> > >> [email protected]=20=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > --------
> > > You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.=20
> > > You may unsubscribe by emailing
> > > [email protected]=20=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > --------
> > You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.=20
> > You may unsubscribe by emailing
> > [email protected]=20=20
>=20
>=20


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