RE: Digest Number 882

Hi!
As the RSS standards are still not well determined, it is more difficult to
find the good starting tutorial than in other subjects.
After searching for a long time, I started just coding my handmade RSS, RDF
solution some years ago.
You could do the following:=20
Get something done that really works: Movable Type (Free, written in perl)
http://www.movabletype.org/ . With this you can publish and generate your
RSSs at once.
Do it by hand: You should have a standard template, that is, an HTML page
with the standard design and with the placeholder for your news.
Another page with a form for your news writing.
Then a script that would be called by the form submission and would create =
a
new html page with your news inside your template placeholder. And at the
same time, it should record a text file called for example: myNews.rss. Tha=
t
would follow the ATOM RSS standard (http://atomnet.sourceforge.net/ ) or an=
y
other that you like.=20
I first did this just by copying some RSS standard models and replacing the
variables with my data. Those where another sort of templates with a number
of placeholders.=20
I did all that with PHP, and worked great for a long time. I even placed th=
e
templates inside the PHP script with 'HEREDOCs' at the printing.=20
I then authomatized all the process with a daily call to it by a system
cronjob. I now do it with perl that is a more stable and developed language=
.
After working with all these for some time, you should develop some
experience in these files. You should try to read them with the standard RS=
S
readers. If you are having some trouble, it is easier to Google for that, o=
r
ask at the newsgroups.
Remember, XML is a just standard text with some tags like in HTML but more
strict rules. Just that. If you are able to write a text file, you are able
to write XML without any XML writer if you want. At least at the starting.

 ALBERTO ADRI=C1N SCHIANO
  [email protected]=20=20
/\<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>/\
\/          Going down the road           \/
/\          and feeling bad...            /\
\/<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>\/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GMC dpu s+:++ a+ C++ UL P+++ L E W+ N++ o- K- w+ O-- M-- V- PS+++ PE+++ Y
GP- t+ 5-- X+ R* tv b++ DI D+G e h! r--- z++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

|  -----Mensaje original-----
|  De: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
|  Enviado el: Mi=E9rcoles, 15 de Septiembre de 2004 16:14
|  Para: [email protected]
|  Asunto: [syndication] Digest Number 882
|=20=20
|  There are 3 messages in this issue.
|=20=20
|  Topics in this digest:
|=20=20
|        1. Re: Re: Independent Online Newspaper RSS Feeds
|             From: "Bruce Whealton" <bruce-CDcG2rVy/[email protected]>
|        2. Re: Independent Online Newspaper RSS Feeds
|             From: "Pavel Kalinov" <pavka14-/[email protected]>
|        3. Re: Re: Independent Online Newspaper RSS Feeds
|             From: "Bill Kearney" <[email protected]>
|=20=20
|=20=20
|  ________________________________________________________________________
|  ________________________________________________________________________
|=20=20
|  Message: 1
|     Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:09:37 -0400
|     From: "Bruce Whealton" <bruce-CDcG2rVy/[email protected]>
|  Subject: Re: Re: Independent Online Newspaper RSS Feeds
|=20=20
|  Pavel,
|  Thanks for your feedback.  Yeah, XML is new to me.  I use a weblog that'=
s
|  called
|  Pmachine and it generates a nice RSS feed.
|  I think I do need to learn more about the material you mention.  I do
|  have a
|  copy of
|  XMLSpy and the tutorial for it.  Forgive me for the ignorance but let me
|  ask
|  you
|  to explain or refer me to some reading material, where to start as it
|  were.
|  Ok, You said,
|  > You'd better just go ahead and create the sites as you want them, and
|  > then generate an XML from the database.
|  This implies that the sites will be based on a db, perhaps an obvious
|  assumption to you
|  but I just need to clarify it.  I have been using php and mysql as that
|  is
|  what my servers
|  support.  And I have looked at some other web site php scripts, no sense
|  starting
|  from scratch if something can be found.  So, from what you said, a
|  straight
|  xhtml site won't cut it.
|  I might add a newsletter feature to the site(s) and then generate the xm=
l
|  file from that.
|  If I use someone else's newsletter script and it doesn't support RSS is
|  it
|  still
|  easy enough to generate the XML/RSS feed from it, meaning as easy as
|  otherwise
|  were I to create everything from scratch.   Finding these types of
|  php/mysql
|  scripts that
|  also support RSS/XML is not easy.
|  > Basically, you will just need to make one script to generate the
|  > export, then put a copy of it in every site where you want to export
|  > stuff from, or just call it with a different parameter for each site.
|  > Here's an example of a case very similar to yours:
|  > http://rss.jpress.co.uk/
|  Obviously that won't show me the script, will it?  I mean when I think o=
f
|  scripts I think
|  of PHP or ASP that get executed before it gets to my browser.  Right?
|  So, again, I don't mind recommended reading, hopefully some web sites
|  that
|  might illumniate things,
|  perhaps the XMLSpy book might help.
|  Thanks,
|  Oh, I'll be glad to check out the site you mention,
|  Bruce
|=20=20
|  >
|  > >From the sound of it, your needs are so specific that you will never
|  > find a ready-made CMS to fit.
|  > You'd better just go ahead and create the sites as you want them, and
|  > then generate an XML from the database.
|  > An export XML is extremely easy to create - much easier than an html
|  > page, in fact. For comparison - on one of my sites I have 350 lines of
|  > code to generate the home page, and 30 lines of code to generate the
|  > XML for it.
|  > Basically, you will just need to make one script to generate the
|  > export, then put a copy of it in every site where you want to export
|  > stuff from, or just call it with a different parameter for each site.
|  > Here's an example of a case very similar to yours:
|  > http://rss.jpress.co.uk/
|  > This is the RSS exports of a group of UK newspapers (several dozen of
|  > them).
|  >
|  > Best regards
|  > Pavel
|  > http://feedz.info/
|  >
|  >
|  >
|  >
|  >
|  > Yahoo! Groups Links
|  >
|  >
|  >
|  >
|  >
|  >
|  >
|  >
|  >
|=20=20
|=20=20
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|  ________________________________________________________________________
|  ________________________________________________________________________
|=20=20
|  Message: 2
|     Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:06:02 -0000
|     From: "Pavel Kalinov" <pavka14-/[email protected]>
|  Subject: Re: Independent Online Newspaper RSS Feeds
|=20=20
|  > This implies that the sites will be based on a db, perhaps an
|  > obvious assumption to you
|=20=20
|  Well yes, without a database this whole thing is suicide.
|  You mentioned a number of news sites, meaning lots and lots of texts -
|  you can't just generate static html's forever, you need a CMS and then
|  let the editors enter stuff.
|=20=20
|  > no sense starting from scratch if something can be found.
|=20=20
|  Usually, yes.
|  Depends on what you want though. For a small site, and if you are
|  happy with a ready-made system that comes with features that somebody
|  else planned - OK. But if you intend to have unique features, if you
|  want to customize, if you are in any way different than the standard
|  case... maybe you should start from scratch.
|  Depends on your long-term plans, and of course your budget.
|=20=20
|  > Obviously that won't show me the script, will it?
|=20=20
|  Well no, but you see the end results, so you know what your script
|  should generate.
|=20=20
|  > I mean when I  think of scripts I think
|  > of PHP or ASP that get executed before it gets to my browser.
|  > Right?
|=20=20
|  Yep, that's the one.
|=20=20
|  > So, again, I don't mind recommended reading, hopefully some web
|  > sites that might illumniate things, perhaps the XMLSpy book might
|  > help.
|=20=20
|  Hm... I don't know, I haven't looked for such info so can't recommend
|  anything :-(
|=20=20
|  Best regards
|  Pavel
|  http://feedz.info/
|=20=20
|=20=20
|=20=20
|  ________________________________________________________________________
|  ________________________________________________________________________
|=20=20
|  Message: 3
|     Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:29:21 -0400
|     From: "Bill Kearney" <[email protected]>
|  Subject: Re: Re: Independent Online Newspaper RSS Feeds
|=20=20
|  > Well yes, without a database this whole thing is suicide.
|=20=20
|  Maybe not suicide but perhaps an exercise in futility.  XML is expected
|  to
|  be VERY precise in handling of stuff like character encodings.
|  Attempting
|  to create something like a newsfeed in XML without using templates and
|  machine-driven code is asking for a fair amount of trouble.  There are,
|  frankly, just too many little details that XML *requires* for a mere
|  mortal
|  to keep track of during manual edits.
|=20=20
|  So yes, it's VERY likely and a VERY good idea to create feeds from
|  database
|  output.
|=20=20
|  > You mentioned a number of news sites, meaning lots and lots of texts -
|  > you can't just generate static html's forever, you need a CMS and then
|  > let the editors enter stuff.
|=20=20
|  Well, things like MovableType, Wordpress and others can well be thought
|  of
|  as a "CMS for one" or a lightweight CMS.  CMS is a bit of misnomer as
|  many
|  different products call themselves a "CMS" when they're little more than
|  template-driven editors.  Truly sophisticated CMS have features like flo=
w
|  control, version tracking and a lot more.  But most environments neither
|  need nor have the budget to obtain and run such beasts.
|=20=20
|  > Usually, yes.
|  > Depends on what you want though. For a small site, and if you are
|  > happy with a ready-made system that comes with features that somebody
|  > else planned - OK. But if you intend to have unique features, if you
|  > want to customize, if you are in any way different than the standard
|  > case... maybe you should start from scratch.
|=20=20
|  Eh, probably not.  Stuff like the various *nuke portals, zope, drupal,
|  slash, wordpress and a host of others already handle more than enough fo=
r
|  most situations.
|=20=20
|=20=20
|  > > I mean when I  think of scripts I think
|  > > of PHP or ASP that get executed before it gets to my browser.
|  > > Right?
|=20=20
|  There are server-side and client-side scripts.  When your browser loads
|  up a
|  page from, say, our site via http://www.syndic8.com you're seeing the
|  results of a great many server-side scripts.  We happen to use PHP for
|  most
|  pages there.  Our RSS ouput is all database driven.
|=20=20
|  -Bill Kearney
|  Syndic8.com
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|  ________________________________________________________________________
|  ________________________________________________________________________
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|  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Yahoo! Groups Links
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|  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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