Re: Re: Renaming RSS 1.0 as RSS-RDF
Cecelia Hickel <cjhickel-/[email protected]> Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:47:34 -0700 (PDT)
| Newsgroups | gmane.network.syndication.rss.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--1Y7eUiT6nqJa2MRFk3dLPMErEyHkYJWRlPJdQ5D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To All I am hoping for discussion about RSS 1.0 and extending using Modules and have needed one for some time. However, the focus of this group has been on other matters. So I decided instead of being pegged right away as a newbie and interrupt development matters, to remain silent and hope for bits of knowledge along the way to help me work through my own development issues. But as a newbie, I fully agree that things are still confusing and I would never try and point any blame on this to anyone. I am just trying to learn all that I can about RDF and in particular extending RDF RSS 1.0. RSS is almost always associated with News and rightly so. However, RSS 1.0 can be extended for many other purposes and I find this a very good thing. However, I need better understanding and information on how an extended RSS 1.0 is "served" using modules. How do RSS parsers read and treat modules, what is necessary to ensure validations/checks. While I can extend, what about the application? The tools? The official stamp of acceptance for modules and have the "proposed" status now approved. I find that this "proposed staus lead me to believe that the work was being abandoned for new ATOM developments and RSS 2.0. But then I had to learn that they were XML and RDF. So the question was then, what about the approval of all those proposed modules? Was that work dropped from lack of time in the day? The need to grow new members? Or was it always intended to approve these at some point but has not yet happened? The discussion that took place a couple of months ago sparked some of my own questions. I can see that all sides have good points and I would not wish to change the name but I also make reference to RSS 1.0 as RDF-RSS 1.0 when I write something or discuss it. I use RDF first like others put the "X" in front of everything XML. It is confusing these differences. It has confused me until I finally found some answers oin the matter and as a relatively new user I must say I feel I have had to sort and sift through all the cruft to try and rap my mind around what is true and what isn't true. I feel all of you have worked very hard and been extremely dedicated. I also know personally what it feels like to have another lay claim on all your hard work and even go as far to feel they are justified. But for the benefit of those who actually need a business success using the RSS 1.0 for successfully because it is RDF, how about formally placing some stamps of approval on the many deserving proposed modules? Hopefully such an act would promote new tool developments for using RSS 1.0. RSS 1.0 is not dead, it is unchanged, and it is neglected. Modules and RDF are a valuable tool at this time for the Web 2.0 and Semantic web efforts.The freedom to extend RSS 1.0 using RDF is why some attention is needed on approving the modules. An approved specification is important as you all know. I would interested to know, will my hard work pay off for others if I write a good module for instance. How many others have already decided that RSS 1.0 is deprecated as can be found written as a statment of fact on blogs. There is nothing "official" to their statements, only observations which seem to allude to that conclusion. It is becoming the concensus which means in reality it is losing its market share,a necessary evil for a funded development and successful Internet implementations. I am suggesting that approving the prosposed modules previously submitted would turn things around, catch things up, and bring new energy to RDF, some newly placed importance and limelight for RSS 1.0 because it is a proven RDF technology, and hopefully new support, new tools, new applications, new articless, maybe new technical documents/resources, etc.. It could be a good time this time around. Regards to all. Cecelia Bill Kearney <[email protected]> wrote: > > You're pushing an agenda that isn't in keeping with what the effort > > thus far has desired. An agenda that, no matter how much spin or > > clever acronyms are tried, isn't what the group here espouses. It's > > been a tiring process dealing with the half-thruths, abuses and > > outright lies perperated under the guise of "improving" RSS. It's no > > wonder the participants are loathe to engage your proposal. > > I don't know who you're referring to in the second-to-last sentence, > but if it's me, some specifics would be helpful. I'm not sure it's worth rehashing again. > I'm not discounting the possibility that my idea's so bad that few > people on the working group will respond to it, even in opposition. Bingo. > But I think it's more likely the group isn't interested in working on > RSS 1.0 any more. I don't share that assumption. > I don't mean that to sound like a rebuke, but as an interested > outsider who has come to the working group twice in the past year, I'm > just explaining why I'm unlikely to come back with a third request in > the future. So that's, what, a threat? Gee, how unlike the 2.0 hijacking effort! Listen to us or we'll go do our own thing. Hmmm, and you wonder why there's silence. Frankly the version whole number jumping game Winer pulled has so sufficiently polluted the RSS effort that few folks are interested in even touching it. Not many people would be interested in getting fucked over AGAIN. You, of all people, should be keenly aware of how tiring such things can be. Basically, RSS is screwed as a brand name. And it's not this group's fault. This group built the brand only to have a singular asshole and his lackeys follow along with theft of it. Does the fact their stolen property (reaching a bit with the analogy here) has become popular justify robbing the orignal effort of it's name. No reasonable person would think so. As for atom, let's hope the maxim of "good things coming to those who wait" will apply. There's no value in trying to play it's emerging acceptance as some sort of justification for the 1.0 effort to abandon it's use and ownship of the RSS name. That dog just won't hunt. -Bill Kearney Syndic8.com Yahoo! Groups Links Cecelia Hickel cjhickel-/[email protected] --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --1Y7eUiT6nqJa2MRFk3dLPMErEyHkYJWRlPJdQ5D Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <!-- Network content --> <body style="background-color: #ffffff;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text"> <p>To All<br> <br> I am hoping for discussion about RSS 1.0 and extending using Modules and have needed one for some time. However, the focus of this group has been on other matters. So I decided instead of being pegged right away as a newbie and interrupt development matters, to remain silent and hope for bits of knowledge along the way to help me work through my own development issues. But as a newbie, I fully agree that things are still confusing and I would never try and point any blame on this to anyone. I am just trying to learn all that I can about RDF and in particular extending RDF RSS 1.0. <br> <br> RSS is almost always associated with News and rightly so. However, RSS 1.0 can be extended for many other purposes and I find this a very good thing. However, I need better understanding and information on how an extended RSS 1.0 is "served" using modules. How do RSS parsers read and treat modules, what is necessary to ensure validations/<wbr>checks. While I can extend, what about the application? The tools? The official stamp of acceptance for modules and have the "proposed" status now approved. I find that this "proposed staus lead me to believe that the work was being abandoned for new ATOM developments and RSS 2.0. But then I had to learn that they were XML and RDF. So the question was then, what about the approval of all those proposed modules? Was that work dropped from lack of time in the day? The need to grow new members? Or was it always intended t o approve these at some point but has not yet happened? <br> <br> The discussion that took place a couple of months ago sparked some of my own questions. I can see that all sides have good points and I would not wish to change the name but I also make reference to RSS 1.0 as RDF-RSS 1.0 when I write something or discuss it. I use RDF first like others put the "X" in front of everything XML. It is confusing these differences. It has confused me until I finally found some answers oin the matter and as a relatively new user I must say I feel I have had to sort and sift through all the cruft to try and rap my mind around what is true and what isn't true.<br> <br> I feel all of you have worked very hard and been extremely dedicated. I also know personally what it feels like to have another lay claim on all your hard work and even go as far to feel they are justified. But for the benefit of those who actually need a business success using the RSS 1.0 for successfully because it is RDF, how about formally placing some stamps of approval on the many deserving proposed modules? Hopefully such an act would promote new tool developments for using RSS 1.0. <br> <br> RSS 1.0 is not dead, it is unchanged, and it is neglected. Modules and RDF are a valuable tool at this time for the Web 2.0 and Semantic web efforts.The freedom to extend RSS 1.0 using RDF is why some attention is needed on approving the modules. An approved specification is important as you all know.<br> <br> I would interested to know, will my hard work pay off for others if I write a good module for instance. How many others have already decided that RSS 1.0 is deprecated as can be found written as a statment of fact on blogs. There is nothing "official" to their statements, only observations which seem to allude to that conclusion. It is becoming the concensus which means in reality it is losing its market share,a necessary evil for a funded development and successful Internet implementations. <br> <br> I am suggesting that approving the prosposed modules previously submitted would turn things around, catch things up, and bring new energy to RDF, some newly placed importance and limelight for RSS 1.0 because it is a proven RDF technology, and hopefully new support, new tools, new applications, new articless, maybe new technical documents/resources<wbr>, etc.. It could be a good time this time around.<br> <br> Regards to all.<br> Cecelia<br> <br> Bill Kearney <<a href="mailto:ml_yahoo%40ideaspace.net">ml_yahoo@ideaspace.<wbr>net</a>> wrote: > > You're pushing an agenda that isn't in keeping with what the effort<br> > > thus far has desired. An agenda that, no matter how much spin or<br> > > clever acronyms are tried, isn't what the group here espouses. It's<br> > > been a tiring process dealing with the half-thruths, abuses and<br> > > outright lies perperated under the guise of "improving" RSS. It's no<br> > > wonder the participants are loathe to engage your proposal.<br> ><br> > I don't know who you're referring to in the second-to-last sentence,<br> > but if it's me, some specifics would be helpful.<br> <br> I'm not sure it's worth rehashing again.<br> <br> > I'm not discounting the possibility that my idea's so bad that few<br> > people on the working group will respond to it, even in opposition.<br> <br> Bingo.<br> <br> > But I think it's more likely the group isn't interested in working on<br> > RSS 1.0 any more.<br> <br> I don't share that assumption.<br> <br> > I don't mean that to sound like a rebuke, but as an interested<br> > outsider who has come to the working group twice in the past year, I'm<br> > just explaining why I'm unlikely to come back with a third request in<br> > the future.<br> <br> So that's, what, a threat? Gee, how unlike the 2.0 hijacking effort!<br> Listen to us or we'll go do our own thing. Hmmm, and you wonder why there's<br> silence.<br> <br> Frankly the version whole number jumping game Winer pulled has so<br> sufficiently polluted the RSS effort that few folks are interested in even<br> touching it. Not many people would be interested in getting fucked over<br> AGAIN. You, of all people, should be keenly aware of how tiring such things<br> can be.<br> <br> Basically, RSS is screwed as a brand name. And it's not this group's fault.<br> This group built the brand only to have a singular asshole and his lackeys<br> follow along with theft of it. Does the fact their stolen property<br> (reaching a bit with the analogy here) has become popular justify robbing<br> the orignal effort of it's name. No reasonable person would think so.<br> <br> As for atom, let's hope the maxim of "good things coming to those who wait"<br> will apply. There's no value in trying to play it's emerging acceptance as<br> some sort of justification for the 1.0 effort to abandon it's use and<br> ownship of the RSS name. That dog just won't hunt.<br> <br> -Bill Kearney<br> Syndic8.com<br> <br> Yahoo! Groups Links<br> <br> Cecelia Hickel<br> <a href="mailto:cjhickel%40yahoo.com">cjhickel@yahoo.<wbr>com</a><br> <br> ------------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---<br> It's here! Your new message!<br> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.<br> <br> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br> <br> </p> </div> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span> <!-- Start the section with Message In topic --> <div id="ygrp-actbar"> <span class="left"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/message/7389;_ylc=X3oDMTM0b2hndHBiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBG1zZ0lkAzc0MTUEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTc0NjE0NTMyBHRwY0lkAzczODk-"> Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">0</span>) </span> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcGNramI1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBG1zZ0lkAzc0MTUEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTc0NjE0NTMy?act=reply&messageNum=7415"> <span class="bld"> Reply </span> (via web post) </a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMjhwazZhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE3NDYxNDUzMg--" class="bld"> Start a new topic </a> </div> <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-vitnav"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlY2IyaTFwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE3NDYxNDUzMg--">Messages</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMDBlMmM3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExNzQ2MTQ1MzI-">Polls</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOWVsNG9lBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE3NDYxNDUzMg--">Members</a> </div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <!-- Do not have place to put it yet --> <div id="ygrp-grft"> </div> <!-- yahoo logo --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-ft"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaGduMW9wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTc0NjE0NTMy"> <img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbDJvYmRyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExNzQ2MTQ1MzI-">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br> Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:[email protected]?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMXE3cnAzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTc0NjE0NTMy"> Visit Your Group </a> | <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"> Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> | <a href="mailto:[email protected]?subject="> Unsubscribe </a> </div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> </div> <!-- ygrp-msg --> <!-- Sponsor --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:140px;float: left; clear: none; margin-left: 5px; background:white; margin-bottom:25px ;position:absolute; top:0; right: 0;"> <!-- Network content --> <!-- Start vitality --> <div id="ygrp-vital"> <div id="vithd">Recent Activity</div> <ul style="list-style-type:none; padding: 0; margin: 2px 0;"> <li style="clear: both;"> <div class="ct" style="float: right;"><span style="display:none"> </span>7</div> <div class="cat"><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMGcxMGhhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzExNzQ2MTQ1MzI-">New Members</a></div> </li> </ul> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNW5xNG5iBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwOTEwODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE3NDYxNDUzMg--"> Visit Your Group </a> </div> <!-- Network content --> <div id="nc"> <div class="ad"> <div id="hd1">Cool Websites</div> <p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jg2cgtb/M=493064.10322723.10977639.9706567/D=groups/S=1706030390:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1174621732/A=4438988/R=0/SIG=111nufaaj/*http://www.bix.com/contest/4746">Know a good site?</a></p> <p>Share and vote</p> <p>on Bix.com!</p> </div> <div class="ad"> <div id="hd1">Ads on Yahoo!</div> <p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12i3hnc17/M=493064.9803227.10510220.8674578/D=groups/S=1706030390:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1174621732/A=3848643/R=0/SIG=131q47hek/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2005&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups4&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50">Learn more now.</a></p> <p>Reach customers</p> <p>searching for you.</p> </div> <div class="ad"> <div id="hd1">Yahoo! Groups</div> <p><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/start;_ylc=X3oDMTJvcnI3ZGhqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzMEZ3JwSWQDMjA5MTA4NgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDYwMzAzOTAEc2VjA25jbW9kBHNsawNncm91cHMyBHN0aW1lAzExNzQ2MTQ1MzI-">Start a group</a></p> <p>in 3 easy steps.</p> <p>Connect with others.</p> </div> </div> </div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div> </div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=2091086/grpspId=1706030390/msgId=7415/stime=1174614532/nc1=4438988/nc2=3848643/nc3=3" width="1" height="1"> <br> <span style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--> </body> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <head> <style type="text/css"> <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family: Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin: 0 0 1em 0; } #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family: Arial; clear: both; } #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top: 10px; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 77%; margin: 0; } #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding: 0 1px; } #ygrp-actbar{ clear: both; margin: 25px 0; white-space:nowrap; color: #666; text-align: right; } #ygrp-actbar .left{ float: left; white-space:nowrap; } .bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family: Verdana; font-size: 77%; padding: 15px 0; } #ygrp-ft{ font-family: verdana; font-size: 77%; border-top: 1px solid #666; padding: 5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-vital{ background-color: #e0ecee; margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 2px 0 8px 8px; } #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size: 77%; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; } #ygrp-vital ul{ padding: 0; margin: 2px 0; } #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type: none; clear: both; border: 1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight: bold; color: #ff7900; float: right; width: 2em; text-align:right; padding-right: .5em; } #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight: bold; } #ygrp-vital a { text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration: underline; } #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color: #999; font-size: 77%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding: 6px 13px; background-color: #e0ecee; margin-bottom: 20px; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding: 0 0 0 8px; margin: 0; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type: square; padding: 6px 0; font-size: 77%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration: none; font-size: 130%; } #ygrp-sponsor #nc { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0 8px; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding: 8px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: #628c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o {font-size: 0; } .MsoNormal { margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; } blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq {margin:4} --> </style> </head> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--> </html><!--End group email --> --1Y7eUiT6nqJa2MRFk3dLPMErEyHkYJWRlPJdQ5D--