Re: Suggestion: charging for IPv4 space

Dear Olivier,
the suggestion is worth considering. I would like to quote another 
proposition from Sebastien Bachollet before asking a question.

Sebastien proposed that we stop delivering IPv4 addresses in 
developped countries, reserving them to countries where the extra 
cost of implementing IPv6 does not make immediate sense. This way 
expertise in deploying IPv6 could progress from technically dense 
areas where the cost would be quickly reduced (from being a mandatory 
standard), to other countries where IPv6 would arrive as a cheaper, 
more common, second wave. Increasing the local synergy in being each 
time a general local change.

My question why is no one accepting the idea of using IPv6 random IDs 
associated to DNS IDs and port numbers to secure DNS querries. A 
current I_D suggests to rotate IP addresses when a DNS server has two 
or three of them. The 64 bits of ID seems to be a sufficiently large 
number and a rather transparent, easier and as resillient sollution 
than DNSCurve or DNSSEC? Is this not an IPv6 killer app? With a 
potential good political support? Or is for a reason a few IPv4 
rotation a more secure solution than zillion IPv6 rotation ?

jfc




At 10:51 22/10/2008, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote:
>All:
>
>Although I am not representing any registry and although this is my first
>post here, I have been monitoring this mailing list for a little while and
>there seems to be very little traffic, if at all. I considered posting to the
>APNIC main discussion list but see there isn't that much more traffic
>there either. However, there was talk on the global-v6 list in June of
>IPv4 to IPv6 migration, so I think that this is the right forum to post
>into. I am consulting each RIR discussion list separately, so sorry for
>the cross-posting, but I feel it is important to take this issue up separately
>in each region of the world.
>
>Through discussions I've had with dozens of people (some of whom may
>be reading this message), I have noticed the following:
>
>- currently, neither IPv4 nor IPv6 address delegation are directly linked to
>any kind of significant recurent *annual* fee;
>- some ISPs are considering introducing IPv6 connectivity to customers
>*for a premium* rather than IPv4 (yes, sadly, it's true);
>- we've had 10+ years of slogan "we are running out of IPv4 addresses" and
>this has not "hit the spot" to get a transitional process going;
>- sadly, there is a lack of IPv6 "killer ap" to promote the use of 
>IPv6 over IPv4;
>- availability of several IPv6 "islands" exist on the Internet, with very poor
>"trans-island" connectivity (although I am told that this is 
>s-l-o-w-l-y improving -
>and that's good news);
>- a lot of stigmas are associated with IPv6 (our customers do not request it;
>there is no demand; etc.)
>
>Clearly, we could all go on talking for another 10 years about IPv6. But
>we don't have 10 years.
>So what's the hurdle?
>
>Let's be fair, folks, it all boils down to a question of *money*.
>
>v4 to v6 transition is seen as an expensive exercise. Darn, with 
>hardware, software
>& training, transition is expensive! Had it been cheap, we wouldn't be in the
>*utter mess* that we are in today because it would have been a natural thing
>to do.
>
>So we are going to run out of "greenfield IPv4" addresses by, say, 
>25 Dec 2010.
>Or earlier. Or later. Whatever. What we know is that we'll run out. <Boom>.
>
>IPv4 addresses will become a limited commodity. Speculators are going to
>step in, and they are likely to do it at a shockingly fast speed.
>(eg. Cantel & Siegel's Green Card Lottery announced mass spamming;
>the sex.com case announced the worth of domain names).
>
>My suggestion (and others have already touched on the idea) is therefore
>to engage a study of the following "positive discrimination" proposal:
>
>1. Introducing a *recurrent annual* cost-element to IPv4 addresses,
>the reason behind it being: making v6 cheaper to run than v4. This could be a
>small cost to start with, increasing significantly but steadily 
>along a scale for
>the next few years.
>This should act more as a *deterrent* for the use of IPv4 in the 
>future than as
>a "tax" to be paid now. Heck, it might even start cleaning up IPv4 space and
>giving us more time to transit to v6 through the release of more IPv4 space!
>Those effects are hard to predict.
>
>2. Building a v4 to v6 neutral & non-for-profit transition fund from the
>IPv4 revenue.
>This fund could finance/subsidise the following:
>a. the initial bridging of the IPv6 islands until those would be able to fly
>commercially
>b. IPv6 tech training
>c. any other project that would trigger/help v4 to v6 transition
>
>If we do not make IPv6 more interesting financially, we risk failure 
>to transit
>smoothly.
>This will cause a *much greater problem* than Domain speculation since
>IP addressing constitutes the very fabric of the Internet:
>
>1. Panic in operators who might then try and grab as much v4 space as
>possible, thus compounding the problem;
>2. Panic transition from v4 to v6 which will completely forego the transition
>testing period which Peter Kirstein (UCL London) has mentioned many
>times, thus introducing instability in the Internet;
>3. A lack of fully qualified technicians & engineers to run IPv6 networks;
>4. A "free" market for IPv4 addresses where prices quickly spiral out
>of control.
>
>I am trying to look for a solution which will ease the shock by instead
>smoothly raising prices. A totally unregulated increase is to be feared.
>The rate of increase might have a greater impact than the price itself - see
>oil prices if you're not convinced: we can "survive" with oil at 
>$140 a barrel,
>but we are hurt by the price going quickly from $70 a barrel to $140.
>It messes the world's economy up because it changes the balance at once
>in all of our business models.
>
>I don't believe in self-regulation by the market - it opens itself to serious
>abuse, in the same way Wall Street bankers abused the system and look
>where this led us?
>
>IPv4 is a *serious* show-stopper wrt the Internet's future development.
>The Internet we are seeing today is still primarily accessed by computers
>but tomorrow, and tomorrow isn't far away, we're going to see increased
>use by mobile devices. There are also now several commercial products
>out there to access your home PC remotely. Next on the tab is the concept
>of having a home multimedia server that can be accessed remotely. And
>then we fall into consumer electronics - new TVs are now all digital-enabled
>& the rest of the "home entertainment" system is quickly becoming 
>all digital.
>The "young generations" do not know CDs - their music travels on digital
>music players & laptops. And then comes the "Network of things" where
>sensors will talk to each other. This is just about to hit us, and 
>our dinosaur
>IPv4 will be as suited to this as the steam engine is to the modern 
>hydrid car.
>IPv6 will enable us to have cheap devices all connected to the Internet.
>
>With instability creeping in the system, we risk several high profile
>technical failures with repercussions not dissimilar to the current
>failures in the banking sector. Do we really want this?
>
>I shall be going to the ICANN Cairo conference and would be happy to
>discuss these matters in person. Come on, let's do something about this
>impending doom. I've lived the DOTCOM boom years and met with
>teenagers who told me they were going to conquer the world - *and they did*.
>IPv6 has the ability to infuse a breath of life in Internetting & 
>the Internet
>Economy worldwide - on every continent. Seize the day. Don't wait until
>someone tells you that you've failed.
>
>Sorry for the length of the message & thanks for reading,
>
>Olivier
>
>--
>Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond, Ph.D.
>E-mail:<[email protected]> | http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
>
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