in the interest of fluffy fairness

[Here's the Kerry interview as well. -x]
http://women.msn.com/786387.armx

I Have a Vision for America  

On the trail with Senator John Kerry and Teresa Heinz Kerry
By Diane Salvatore

 
Ladies' Home Journal recently caught up with the 2004 presidential hopefuls, 
President George W. Bush and Senator John Kerry, and their wives. Here, in a 
condensed version of the exclusive magazine interview, the Senator and Mrs. 
Heinz Kerry explore their views of the American character, religion, terrorism, 
jobs -- and disclose the secret to their happy marriage.


Supportive Partners

I am waiting in a suite in the St. Regis Hotel for Senator John Kerry and Mrs. 
Teresa Heinz Kerry to arrive. It's a cool, sunny day in Los Angeles, and that 
morning, the campaigning couple went to Woodrow Wilson High School, speaking to 
a mostly Latino audience. Mrs. Heinz Kerry, 65, wore a wide-brimmed straw hat, 
ever vigilant about protecting herself from skin cancer, which claimed the life 
of her mother. After speeches there, Senator Kerry gave a press conference 
about the then-breaking news of the abuse of Iraqi prisoners in American 
military custody. 
 
 
When the couple arrive, trailed by unsmiling Secret Service men, Senator Kerry 
offers a heartfelt and courtly apology for his tardiness. His boyishly lanky 
frame belies his 60 years; only his thick silver hair hints at his age. As we 
sit down to the interview, he idly reaches for his wife's hand or knee as he 
talks. At one point, she asks his help securing the colorful beaded bracelet a 
woman gave her that morning, and he ties it neatly on her petite 
wrist. "Sweetie" peppers his conversation when he addresses her.

Diane Salvatore for Ladies' Home Journal:Mrs. Heinz Kerry, can you give us 
three words to describe what kind of mother you are? 

Mrs. Heinz Kerry: Hands-on. Strict. Tender.

Salvatore: Senator, three words to describe the type of father you are? 

Senator Kerry: Loving. Involved. Supportive. 

Salvatore: Same exercise, Mrs. Heinz Kerry -- three words to describe yourself 
as a wife?

Mrs. Heinz Kerry: I'm sure difficult. [The senator laughs heartily.] I am a 
nurturer. Home is important to me. Therefore, everything about making home your 
rock, your kingdom, is important. And challengingly supportive. 

Salvatore: Senator, three words to describe yourself as a husband?

Senator Kerry: For myself, I'd include loving. And I'd like to say respectful. 
And [thinks a long moment] amazed . . . impressed.

Salvatore: Mrs. Heinz Kerry, you are widowed, and senator, you are divorced, so 
you are both in a second marriage, which presents special challenges. To what 
do you attribute the obvious success of your happy second marriage?

Senator Kerry: I think there's a wisdom that comes from loss, and from life. 
And there's a commitment to making something work that comes from that wisdom 
and age. You know how to take a deeper breath and get through things that 
before you might not have. There's a level of relationship that's bigger and 
different, at least for me.

Mrs. Heinz Kerry: Life teaches you a lot. And one of the things it teaches you 
is what's important and what isn't. If you've been tested, you know at least to 
some extent what the depths of your resources are. And that both allows you 
staying power as well as determination, with a little less anxiety. Maybe just 
as much emotion, but less anxiety. So you're not frightened as easily by things 
that are not the way you want them to be. Certainly I had a very good first 
marriage with all the difficulties that all marriages have -- didn't have 
enough time with my late husband, he worked too hard, but he was very, very 
homey, and that left me a good taste and left me open to it again. 

What He's Like

Salvatore: Mrs. Heinz Kerry, what characteristics do you see in the private 
John Kerry that the public hasn't seen yet? 

Senator Kerry: [to his wife, laughing] Don't tell it all -- I'll be in trouble!

Mrs. Heinz Kerry: He's very intense. I think that sometimes that lack of a 
relaxed look is what distances him from people. He's just really intense. And 
that's taken me some adjusting, because you have to get through. But at the 
same time, he can sit very quietly and look at the sea, watch birds. I guess 
that's another form of intensity. It's meditative. The other thing that's 
interesting -- and I don't think this is necessarily a great quality -- is 
always learning something new. Something new. Something new. And I've come to 
say I'm not going to give up certain things to learn something new. Maybe 
because I'm older. But he says, 'I'd like to take up painting.' I said, 'When? 
Which life?' 

Salvatore: Mrs. Heinz Kerry, there is so much debate about who the First Lady 
should be, and in fact there are studies about the archetypes and who fits them 
and who doesn't. Is it your assessment that Americans are narrow-minded about 
what the First Lady ought to be?

Mrs. Heinz Kerry: I don't think American people are at all. I think people who 
write about them can tend, in an almost Victorian way, to say, "These are the 
10 types, which one are you?" These people make a business out of it. But I 
know that all people want is someone who is open and intelligent, honest, real 
and supportive of the president, and I think Laura Bush looks that way very 
much. But people can do that in so many ways. I always go back to Pittsburgh 
and to where I became an American citizen [in 1971], and to the hard-working, 
honest and tender people of that place. A lot of them are not very educated in 
the formal sense, but extremely real and loving in all dimensions and that's 
where I get my grounding in terms of who Americans are.

Salvatore: Mrs. Heinz Kerry, are there issues about which you have different 
opinions from your husband, and if so, do you debate these in the hope of 
changing his mind? 

Mrs. Heinz Kerry: No, I discuss. I never have -- in my first marriage and now --
 ever tried to change a vote. Nor have I ever behaved in any way that would 
either bless or punish my husband for the way he voted. But I think a wife has 
to be in a position where her role is to be an intelligent partner, but then if 
she's not the elected official, she's not the elected official, period. I've 
had several times in my life where some really difficult votes have come up, 
with my late husband and with John, and you talk about them and you grapple 
with it and in the end, I keep quiet, and let it happen. 

The Country's Future

Salvatore: Do you both believe there will be a woman president in the next 20 
years? And will she be a Democrat or a Republican?

Mrs. Heinz Kerry: Gosh, I jolly hope so, and I hope she's a good one. 

Senator Kerry: I'm convinced. I see absolutely no reason why not. The country's 
ready and all you need is somebody who steps up who is ready.

Salvatore: Your sons and daughters, in a different life script, might have 
joined the military, might now be serving in Iraq. What sort of soldiers do you 
think they might have made? And what one piece of advice would you each give 
them on the eve of shipping out? 

Senator Kerry: Boy, there's a huge question. I have five -- stepchildren and my 
own biological children. I'm just going to speak about all five. Some would 
make great soldiers and some would not. And my advice to them on shipping out 
would be to do their duty and remember their fellows and people around them and 
beside them as they serve. 

Salvatore: Senator, tell me a soldier's story that you've heard in the last six 
months that's made a particular impression on you. 

Senator Kerry: I met with a bunch of soldiers just the other day, out of Walter 
Reed [Army Medical Center], and one of the kids from New York was describing 
what had happened when they got hit by an improvised explosive device that went 
off inside their humvee. The guy next to him was killed, and his buddy was 
incredibly wounded. I also met a young woman who'd had an amputation. She was 
just as tough as could be and understood that this was the price you pay, and 
was just so grateful to be alive. These kids were just so courageous and 
straightforward, and feeling unbelievably upbeat and resolute and concerned 
about their friends back there. I was just so impressed by their grit and their 
spirit and their sense of duty and their sense of country.

But these kids are going through tough stuff, riding around in cars, waiting to 
be shot at, ambushed, and I understand that, from my own experience of waiting 
to be shot at. The military we have today is as fine as it's ever been. These 
folks are as well trained, as motivated, as capable as at any time, and 
Americans ought to be very proud of them. Some of the choices that are made for 
them raise some serious questions. They're at greater risk than they should 
have been. Some of them have been put in harm's way without the proper 
equipment, and I think that's inappropriate.

Salvatore: Senator, should you get to the White House, would your priority be 
to bring the troops home as soon as possible, no matter what?

Senator Kerry: Not "no matter what," no. Responsibly. Responsibly. I think it'd 
be very bad for the stability of the Middle East, bad for the war on terror, 
bad for the United States, bad for Europe, just to leave a failed Iraq. But 
this President and administration has missed so many chances to bring the world 
to our side. I believe the world has a legitimate interest in not having a 
failed Iraq. So why are they absent? It underscores a failure of diplomacy, a 
failure of leadership, of patience, of working with countries to bring them to 
their common interests. The unwillingness of this administration to share 
reconstruction authority and governmental transformation authority with an 
international entity precludes many people from saying we have a reason to 
share the burden. It depends on what you inherit on January 20, but I would 
have worked long ago to internationalize this, de-Americanize the occupation, 
get the target off of Americans, get rid of this sense of American occupation 
of a Middle Eastern country, which is even more so now with the revelations of 
the treatment of Iraqi prisoners creating this incredible anger throughout the 
Arab and Muslim world and the whole world.

Salvatore: Senator, do you believe that President Bush is a false patriot?

Senator Kerry: No, I think he's a patriot. I think he cares about America. But 
I think it's false to challenge other people's patriotism, or to couch certain 
arguments as patriotism that only belong to you. I'm ready to acknowledge the 
patriotism of people with whom I enormously disagree but I don't think they 
don't love their country. And I think unfortunately some Republicans have been 
much too quick to challenge anybody who raises a question, to challenge their 
patriotism. I think it's inappropriate. To challenge John McCain's service in 
prison in Hanoi. To have challenged Max Cleland's [former senator from Georgia] 
commitment to country after he lost three limbs in Vietnam. That's just 
morally, fundamentally wrong.

Views on Marriage -- and More 

Salvatore: Every major civil rights movement in this country has eventually 
prevailed. Looking through the prism of history, do you feel that same-sex 
marriage is inevitable in America as a legal right?

Senator Kerry: I can't predict what's inevitable in America. I think it's 
important to protect people's rights. And in my own personal judgment -- 
somebody may deem me wrong, I may be wrong -- but my judgment is that balance 
of respecting rights and traditional -- [His cell phone rings.] excuse me one 
second. 

Salvatore: Mrs. Heinz Kerry, is your opinion about same-sex marriage different 
from your husband's?

Mrs. Heinz Kerry: I wish there was another word other than "union" 
or "contracts" that signified such a relationship. To me, a marriage has always 
been Mom and Dad. On the other hand, you have children who are adopted, and/or 
are the children of same-sex marriages -- moms and moms or dads and dads -- and 
that's a dilemma. And I've been thinking about that. So it should be 
acknowledging a formality that's not just a contract. But as a mother, I would 
like to be able to open my arms to someone that my child or children loved, 
whether or not they were what I would normally expect them to be. And I would 
like not to feel stigmatized by my friends. I would like my children not to 
suffer from it. I'd like them to be as welcome and as happy and as much a 
member of the family as anyone else. I speak as a mother. And that's all I 
think we owe one another -- respect and dignity and civil rights, and peace.

Salvatore: Senator, you were saying?

Senator Kerry: It's not too dissimilar. Teresa raises an interesting question. 
Civil union is a way of respecting the rights in the fullest way, providing you 
have federal assumption. Marriage, in the way we've thought of it in terms of 
men and women, is a way of respecting a traditional value that has great 
meaning across the country. I've thought of it as a fair way of respecting 
both. 

Salvatore: Senator, you have said that you are Catholic, and you are a 
legislator, but you are not a Catholic legislator. There's been a lot of 
discussion about the fact that President Bush has been one of the most vocal 
presidents in terms of his faith. Do you find the President's discussion of his 
faith as part of his decision-making process inappropriate?

Senator Kerry: I think it's up to the American people to judge what's 
appropriate or inappropriate, but I will say I personally would not choose -- 
though I'm a person of faith -- to insert it as much as this President does. I 
think it crosses a line, and it sort of squeezes the diversity that the 
presidency is supposed to embrace. It creates a discomfort level that an awful 
lot of folks who are Americans as fully under the Constitution as anybody else 
are made to feel sometimes less so. You have to balance it, and be very 
thoughtful about it. Most presidents always have balanced it very carefully. 
Ronald Reagan balanced it. Eisenhower balanced it. Kennedy. I'm not sure the 
President always balances it appropriately. I also believe that it's very 
important for Americans to have a president who really respects the 
Constitution in its fullest, which means the separation of church and state. At 
the same time, I want to emphasize that I embrace my faith, and I wouldn't 
hesitate in the appropriate places to talk about it. I spoke at an 
international prayer breakfast. I've even talked from a pulpit. But that's 
where it belongs. 

Salvatore: What do each of you find the most distressing feature of American 
life today, and the most noble?

Senator Kerry: The most distressing feature is the lack of time and the 
pressure on the average American and family which reduces their ability to 
parent, to give to community, to tap into the human parts of who we are. Also 
the lack of reading. Almost 80 percent of Americans get 100 percent of their 
news from television. Those two factors have a profound impact on how we reach 
consensus. On the other hand, I think Americans have an incredible spirit, they 
are remarkably resilient. Stunningly generous, ready to help and give to other 
people and do good and be idealistic. People are good. De Tocqueville noticed 
that. He said America is great, because Americans are good. And I think it's 
fundamentally true.

Salvatore: Senator, you've said that you would create 10 million new jobs over 
the first four years if you were in the White House. It sounds almost too good 
to be true. Is it deliverable?

Senator Kerry: Absolutely. When Bill Clinton was president, we created 11 
million jobs in the first four years. Over eight years with Bill Clinton, we 
created 23 million new jobs. We are today a bigger country, and we have more 
workers and more people and larger markets. Of course we can create it, if we 
put our minds to investing in the creation of those new jobs, and to pushing 
the curve of science and technology. Alternative, renewable energy such as 
solar and wind. Rebuilding community roads and bridges. Rewarding companies for 
creating jobs in America, not abroad. There are huge possibilities here. It's 
the lack of vision that's diminished the expectations of a lot of people about 
what we can do. President Bush is the first president since Herbert Hoover to 
lose jobs during his term -- 2.8 million jobs lost. And no matter what we 
create this month, or next month, he's not going to wind up with a net creation 
of jobs in his four years. He could have. That's why Warren Buffet and Bob 
Rubin, who presided over that great Clinton economy, are supporting me. Because 
they know this fiscal policy is wrong. They know we can make more responsible 
choices for our future. We have to get back on the right track, and that's what 
I want to do.
 


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