Re: Settling tank
[email protected] Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:26:11 +0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.clubs.gobiodiesel.mixmasters |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <120520062326.10095.457600120008A4E20000276F221348437302019C020A9D019C02080106@comcast.net> |
I like sanity. I also like order. I'd like to see the site plan first. And I'd like to see the flowchart of what and how all of these tanks can be plumbed together to minimize the cluster of free pumps, hoses, adapters and connectors and all of the dripping messes that seem to accompany. Saturday, I personally was unaware of a third reactor. I'm guessing it's the blue drum that Karen and I moved to the shed. Is it going to fit in the already existing containment? If it is, my suggestion about the wind/tipping issue would be to bolt horizontally approx. 7' lengths of angle iron across the legs of the three reactors-top and bottom. This would also take the strain off the plumbing at the bottom of the reactors. It wouldn't affect the integrity of the containment. I also would add some standoffs from the conex to the reactor legs(similar to earthquake-proofing your home waterheater) Speaking of order, there was talk of pouring a slab under the containment this past Saturday. I happen to lke the idea. It would be best to have that in place before everything gets moved in as far as order-just to follow Zac's note about moving stuff. I'm also happy to help form/mix/pour that concrete. And I'd suggest Thursday afternoon to do that just to keep things open for Saturday. Thanks, John -------------- Original message -------------- From: Zac Imboden <[email protected]> > For sake of sanity, let's keep our nomenclature consistent so we are > talking about the same thing: > > oil consolidation tank - holds consolidated oil from 5 gallon jugs > fuel settling tank - holds reacted fuel for glycerin settling > water heater - heats water for reaction > oil heater - heater oil for reaction > reactor - the cone-bottom vessel used for reacting oil to make fuel > > I see us doing this in 4 phases: > > 1) get all 3 reactors safety upgraded. React and settle in reactor > containers. > 2) Get fuel settling tank online. React in reactor; settle in > settling tank. > 3) Get oil consolidation tank online with ambient heating system. > 4) Get oil heaters online. Start using to preheat oil. > > Before we do this, we need to decide on the footprint for these > containers and determine our new site layout before going forward, so > we move stuff as little as possible. > > After everyone left on last Saturday, the wind kicked up and I > noticed that the empty reactors are extremely vulnerable to falling > over. They NEED to be bolted down. Further, one of the reactor tanks > sits freely on its legs. This tank needs to be attached to the legs > in some way. The tank could blow over separately. > I weighted down the reactors with sandbags and concrete for the time > being. > > On Dec 4, 2006, at 11:14 PM, Felix Kersting wrote: > > > I don't believe the settling tank needs to be heated, just insulated. > > > > Felix > > > > mixmasters-request-qjLDD68F18PzqnJmKJVjZEEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Send mixmasters mailing list submissions to > >> [email protected] > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://lists.gobiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/mixmasters > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> mixmasters-request-qjLDD68F18PzqnJmKJVjZEEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> mixmasters-owner-qjLDD68F18PzqnJmKJVjZEEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of mixmasters digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Re: [siteplan] Re: [mixmasters] [Fwd: Re: Used water heaters] > >> (Zac Imboden) > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> - > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 13:48:17 -0800 > >> From: Zac Imboden > >> Subject: Re: [siteplan] Re: [mixmasters] [Fwd: Re: Used water > >> heaters] > >> To: [email protected] > >> Cc: siteplan , > >> [email protected], GoBiodiesel Mixmasters > >> > >> Message-ID: <86CD7A37-B321-4F8D-9976-966F6644A8F2-aZ6PXv3Ip8kQwY+2splSUA@public.gmane.org> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> Sounds good. These are in addition to the settling tank, which > >> would also need to be heated, albiet at a much lower temperature, > >> correct? > >> > >> On Nov 29, 2006, at 9:56 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Friends, > >>> > >>> The water heaters are to heat oil for the processors. This was > >>> part of the plan before the in-line heater was repaired. > >>> > >>> Water heaters have elements and thermostats. Fill the water > >>> heater with oil and set the stat to 160. when the oil is hot, > >>> drain the water and pump into the reactor. Each reactor will > >>> have a 50 gallon water heater to feed it. > >>> > >>> The water heaters can be filled and turned on the day before > >>> processing to have hot oil ready to go at processing time - this > >>> is why Seth would spend Thursday nights on-site: so oil was > >>> ready to use on Friday and the same on Sat. They will also heat > >>> the next batch of oil while the current batch is processing - we > >>> need to find the right 240V elements ~(2000W) to heat oil in the > >>> shortest period of time without overheating the element. I have > >>> created a spreadsheet that gives the time to heat a batch of oil. > >>> > >>> Water heaters are insulated - they heat faster and therefore > >>> require less power than heating in the processors. They will > >>> hold hot oil overnight and keep it hot without a lot of power. > >>> > >>> Water heater thermostats are NOT class 1, Div 1, so they are > >>> fine in the CONEX after the processors are moved out and the big > >>> power is installed. > >>> > >>> Sounds like I should be writing a "State of the Siteplan/ > >>> Processor Upgrade" report so everyone can see where we are.... > >>> maybe next week when I am in Enterprise. > >>> > >>> Felix > >>> > >>> -------------- Original message -------------- > >>> From: Zac Imboden > >>> That's what I was thinking. Just keep it "hands" warm so > >>> facilitate hose flow and speed up time heating up in the > >>> reactor. Plus, it will aid in settling if it's warm but not to > >>> hot, shaken but not stirred. > >>> > >>> So what are all the water heaters for? > >>> > >>> On Nov 28, 2006, at 8:25 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Zac and all, > >>>> ? > >>>> The "big metal tank" aka the used oil receptacle may be heated > >>>> in the winter time to keep the oil flowing.? It would be > >>>> impractical to heat and keep heating all that oil to 130/160 > >>>> ?.? I was thinking that we would keep the "big metal tank" and > >>>> about 300 gallons of oil at about 70 just so we could pump it > >>>> in cold weather.? > >>>> ? > >>>> Aloha from Idaho, > >>>> ? > >>>> Felix > >>>> ? > >>>> -------------- Original message -------------- > >>>> From: Zac Imboden > >>>> Felix, > >>>> > >>>> I'm still fuzzy on the oil preheating requirements and vessel. > >>>> Were we not going to use the big metal tank to consolidate oil > >>>> and keep it heated? Details would be great. > >>>> > >>>> On Nov 27, 2006, at 7:20 PM, Felix Kersting wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Friends, > >>>>> > >>>>> I made contact with one of the NW largest plumbing and > >>>>> industrial piping wholesalers today.? The name is Ferguson > >>>>> Supply, formerly Familian NW.? > >>>>> Sparing the details (unusual for me!) they will be watching > >>>>> for used electric? water heaters for us.? They will email or > >>>>> call me and I will pick up as they come in.? I specified only > >>>>> non- leakers, and they seemed happy to comply, on the > >>>>> understanding that they don't come in very often.? Since > >>>>> Ferguson probably moves 100+ water heaters a week, I am hoping > >>>>> we can score one a month for the next couple months to get us > >>>>> rolling on our our goal of being able to preheat 150 gallons > >>>>> of oil and 50 gallons of wash water.? We might even stockpile > >>>>> a few in case we do find a leaker or 2. > >>>>> > >>>>> Nice when the scrounged material comes to you! > >>>>> > >>>>> Best to all, > >>>>> > >>>>> Felix > >>>>> > >>>>> From: "Felix Kersting" > >>>>> Date: November 27, 2006 4:11:47 PM PST > >>>>> To: > >>>>> Cc: "Felix Kersting" > >>>>> Subject: RE: Used water heaters > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Alan, > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> We have no particular requirements, we can rewire to whatever > >>>>> we need.? Typically we need to replace the elements with > >>>>> medium wattage-density since oil has a lower heat capacity > >>>>> than water ? that way we don?t blow out elements. > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks again, > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Felix > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Felix J. Kersting PE > >>>>> > >>>>> Energy Engineer > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> McKinstry Essention > >>>>> > >>>>> Phone: 503-262-2304 > >>>>> Cell: 503-969-5996 > >>>>> Fax: 206-832-8691 > >>>>> http://www.mckinstry.com > >>>>> "For the Life of Your Building" > >>>>> > >>>>> From: Alan.Murashige-KWgbZ2uOPaxWk0Htik3J/[email protected] > >>>>> [mailto:Alan.Murashige-KWgbZ2uOPaxWk0Htik3J/[email protected]] > >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 3:49 PM > >>>>> To: Felix Kersting > >>>>> Subject: RE: Used water heaters > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Felix, > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Is there any particular Input Wattage / Voltage requirements ? > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> I?ll keep an eye out for the non-leakers. > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Al Murashige > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Commercial Water Heater Manager > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Portland, Or. > >>>>> > >>>>> Tel: 503-283-3333 > >>>>> > >>>>> Fax: 503-283-3350 > >>>>> > >>>>> Cell: 971-563-4085 > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> From: Felix Kersting [mailto:felixk-EQsIyYdBtA3qlBn2x/[email protected]] > >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 3:14 PM > >>>>> To: Alan Murashige - 3001 PORTLAND > >>>>> Cc: Felix Kersting > >>>>> Subject: Used water heaters > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Alan, > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for taking my call.? I am a member of the GoBiodiesel > >>>>> Coop.? We utilize used electric water heaters to heat waste > >>>>> oil for processing into biodiesel.? We are currently not a > >>>>> non- profit, but are working toward that status.? > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> I am looking for used non-leaking electric water heaters ? > >>>>> anything between 50 and 120 gallons (hopefully free).? I would > >>>>> be happy to pick them up.? I could use 3 or 4 and am not in a > >>>>> particular hurry. > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Please feel free to contact me by email or call my cell phone > >>>>> if and when anything becomes available, I will arrange to pick > >>>>> up ASAP. > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks again for your willingness to help, > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Felix > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Felix J. Kersting PE > >>>>> > >>>>> Energy Engineer > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> McKinstry Essention > >>>>> > >>>>> Phone: 503-262-2304 > >>>>> Cell: 503-969-5996 > >>>>> Fax: 206-832-8691 > >>>>> http://www.mckinstry.com > >>>>> "For the Life of Your Building" > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> mixmasters mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.gobiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/mixmasters > >>>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> Zac Imboden > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> 1534 SE 35th Place > >>>> Portland, OR > >>>> 97214 > >>>> 971-563-2477 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> From: Zac Imboden > >>>> Date: November 28, 2006 10:57:13 AM PST > >>>> To: GoBiodiesel Mixmasters > >>>> Cc: siteplan , > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> Subject: [siteplan] Re: [mixmasters] [Fwd: Re: Used water heaters] > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> siteplan mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.gobiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/siteplan > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> Zac Imboden > >>> [email protected] > >>> 1534 SE 35th Place > >>> Portland, OR > >>> 97214 > >>> 971-563-2477 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Zac Imboden > >> [email protected] > >> 1534 SE 35th Place > >> Portland, OR > >> 97214 > >> 971-563-2477 > >> > >> > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: http://lsits.osourcery.com/pipermail/mixmasters/attachments/ > >> 20061204/93df3701/attachment.htm > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> mixmasters mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.gobiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/mixmasters > >> > >> End of mixmasters Digest, Vol 34, Issue 1 > >> ***************************************** > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > mixmasters mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.gobiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/mixmasters > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Zac Imboden > [email protected] > 1534 SE 35th Place > Portland, OR > 97214 > 971-563-2477 > > > > _______________________________________________ > mixmasters mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gobiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/mixmasters _______________________________________________ mixmasters mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gobiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/mixmasters