Re: Emacs Community and FSF Governance Critique: A Call for Pluralism, Evolution, or Trolling?

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> This is what we call relitigation or, since you don't actually have a new=
 point to litigate, rubbing salt in the wound=2E

> From what I have observed, most of you are very, very deeply diverged in=
to an insider's club, and this kind of group-reaffirming behavior is why=2E

It has nothing to do with that, I was just giving context to what the auth=
or of Commercial Emacs did before we started praising him=2E The README of =
Commercial Emacs is also very hostile=2E If anyone needs to be friendly it'=
s him, and he had chances to, and he made his decision=2E

> In twenty five years of web 2=2E0 technologies coming to the forefront, =
the FSF beat the same drum, telling consumers to stop liking it and busines=
ses to stop making money=2E=20

Find me a word in anything Richard or FSF has written where they're saying=
 businesses need to stop making money or consumers' experience isn't import=
ant=2E

I hope you understand the notion of a hierarchy of values=2E FSF's hierarc=
hy of values is pretty simple, its first aim is to philosophically be consi=
stent=2E That is, we shall not give up on the values of (software) freedom =
(defined in the precise way as it is before you chime in "it's actually not=
 free") even if we have to give up on certain things, no matter how much we=
 want them (yes, we do)=2E=20

There must be first a ground, before we can choose other preferences=2E FS=
F's philosophy is that ground=2E Again, you should try reading about it=2E =
Read Richard's collection "Free Software & Free Society"=2E

Nobody deliberately wants to worsen the user's experience, rather we go a =
step further and instead of just contaminating the user with features we ca=
re about values such as freedom & privacy=2E Which organisation can you nam=
e, cares about the freedom of the user to such an extent? Which software do=
 we have comparably to GNU Emacs (an embodiment of GNU's philosophy) that p=
rovides even a pinch of the freedom?

Similarly, nobody is against business=2E Richard himself is not=2E It's no=
t our fault that modern capitalism considers business as jailing users in a=
 walled garden and then charging for it=2E Who is stopping people from doin=
g normal business with AGPL licensed code? I know several Web3 organization=
s that do so=2E

So, if you are interested in critiquing=2E Write a comparable essay, in go=
od faith, that actually takes parts of GNU's philosophy and tries to intern=
ally criticize its foundations=2E This is what is called immanent critique =
in philosophy=2E Making generalized statements with the assumption that peo=
ple should take you seriously because some words have been chained is point=
less=2E

Regards,

On 24 August 2025 01:55:02 GMT, Psionic K <psionik@positron=2Esolutions> w=
rote:
>> "Bro" was also the person who sent a 3K LOC commit for gnus and became =
offensive when asked to restructure it into smaller patches that can be rev=
iewed=2E
>
>This is what we call relitigation or, since you don't actually have a
>new point to litigate, rubbing salt in the wound=2E
>
>From what I have observed, most of you are very, very deeply diverged
>into an insider's club, and this kind of group-reaffirming behavior is
>why=2E
>
>> people don't understand how exactly Free Software works
>
>The framing is most certainly in question in this discussion=2E  In
>twenty five years of web 2=2E0 technologies coming to the forefront, the
>FSF beat the same drum, telling consumers to stop liking it and
>businesses to stop making money=2E  If ever the long play tactics were
>supposed to work, it should have happened inside of two decades=2E
>
>If you can't do anything any faster or more effective, get out of the way=
=2E

Divya Ranjan, Mathematics, Philosophy and Libre Software
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<html><head></head><body><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; This is what we call reliti=
gation or, since you don't actually have a new point to litigate, rubbing s=
alt in the wound=2E<br><br>&gt; From what I have observed, most of you are =
very, very deeply diverged into an insider's club, and this kind of group-r=
eaffirming behavior is why=2E<br><br>It has nothing to do with that, I was =
just giving context to what the author of Commercial Emacs did before we st=
arted praising him=2E The README of Commercial Emacs is also very hostile=
=2E If anyone needs to be friendly it's him, and he had chances to, and he =
made his decision=2E<br><br>&gt; In twenty five years of web 2=2E0 technolo=
gies coming to the forefront, the FSF beat the same drum, telling consumers=
 to stop liking it and businesses to stop making money=2E <br><br>Find me a=
 word in anything Richard or FSF has written where they're saying businesse=
s need to stop making money or consumers' experience isn't important=2E<br>=
<br>I hope you understand the notion of a hierarchy of values=2E FSF's hier=
archy of values is pretty simple, its first aim is to philosophically be co=
nsistent=2E That is, we shall not give up on the values of (software) freed=
om (defined in the precise way as it is before you chime in "it's actually =
not free") even if we have to give up on certain things, no matter how much=
 we want them (yes, we do)=2E <br><br>There must be first a ground, before =
we can choose other preferences=2E FSF's philosophy is that ground=2E Again=
, you should try reading about it=2E Read Richard's collection "Free Softwa=
re &amp; Free Society"=2E<br><br>Nobody deliberately wants to worsen the us=
er's experience, rather we go a step further and instead of just contaminat=
ing the user with features we care about values such as freedom &amp; priva=
cy=2E Which organisation can you name, cares about the freedom of the user =
to such an extent? Which software do we have comparably to GNU Emacs (an em=
bodiment of GNU's philosophy) that provides even a pinch of the freedom?<br=
><br>Similarly, nobody is against business=2E Richard himself is not=2E It'=
s not our fault that modern capitalism considers business as jailing users =
in a walled garden and then charging for it=2E Who is stopping people from =
doing normal business with AGPL licensed code? I know several Web3 organiza=
tions that do so=2E<br><br>So, if you are interested in critiquing=2E Write=
 a comparable essay, in good faith, that actually takes parts of GNU's phil=
osophy and tries to internally criticize its foundations=2E This is what is=
 called immanent critique in philosophy=2E Making generalized statements wi=
th the assumption that people should take you seriously because some words =
have been chained is pointless=2E<br><br>Regards,</div><br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">On 24 August 2025 01:55:02 GMT, Psionic =
K &lt;psionik@positron=2Esolutions&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(=
204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"k9mail"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0=
pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"><di=
v dir=3D"auto">"Bro" was also the person who sent a 3K LOC commit for gnus =
and became offensive when asked to restructure it into smaller patches that=
 can be reviewed=2E<br></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br>This is wha=
t we call relitigation or, since you don't actually have a<br>new point to =
litigate, rubbing salt in the wound=2E<br><br>From what I have observed, mo=
st of you are very, very deeply diverged<br>into an insider's club, and thi=
s kind of group-reaffirming behavior is<br>why=2E<br><br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1p=
x solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"auto">people don't underst=
and how exactly Free Software works<br></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br>The framing is most certainly in question in this discussion=2E  In<br=
>twenty five years of web 2=2E0 technologies coming to the forefront, the<b=
r>FSF beat the same drum, telling consumers to stop liking it and<br>busine=
sses to stop making money=2E  If ever the long play tactics were<br>suppose=
d to work, it should have happened inside of two decades=2E<br><br>If you c=
an't do anything any faster or more effective, get out of the way=2E<br></d=
iv></pre></blockquote></div><div dir=3D"auto">Divya Ranjan, Mathematics, Ph=
ilosophy and Libre Software</div></body></html>
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