Re: [OS:N:] Re: Questionaire about the support of students rights and the freedom in the learning environment

On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 11:09, James Michael DuPont wrote:
> 
> --- Charles McColm <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 05:07, James Michael DuPont wrote:
> > 
> > > It does not matter how nicely you package the contracts to rob the
> > > students of thier freedoms, in the end they are the ones loosing.
> > Even
> > > if you give them a warm and fuzzy feeling at the same time.
> > 
> > Wrong!  
> 
> I disagree!
> It still does not change the fact they are losing out. 
> 
> >It does matter how nicely you package the contents, then
> > entire
> > advertising industry is built on this principle and people ARE
> > willing
> > to give up freedoms (Windows) in order to use a product.  
> 
> How many of the students who buy these cheap $15 windows student
> licenses know that they are subjecting themselves to possiblly illegal
> survailance?  They dont know or understand what rights they are giving
> up!
> 
> 
> >If Red Hat
> > was
> > being so devious there would be NO OTHER alternative documentation
> > other
> > than their courseware.  
> 
> I am not accusing redhat of anything here, execpt for omitting any
> education or mention of freedom. They carefully avoid that word.
> 
> >That is not the case and the folks at Red Hat
> > have been very conscious about making open contributions to the
> > community.
> 
> Again, my criticism of redhat stands, and I need not add insult to
> injury.
> 
> > > does not matter how you portray it, they are still losing out. Our
> > > friends at digital rights can pay their morgage and buy nice
> > clothes.
> > > Great, give your self a pat of the back, you are teaching them
> > about
> > > "open source" but nothing about freedom, in fact you are taking
> > their
> > 
> > You are confusing freedom with free as in beer.  
> 
> I am not confusing anything here.
> 
> >Your words "teaching
> > them about open source but nothing about freedom" again suggests that
> > you equate freedom with free as in beer.  
> 
> Please explain?
> 
> >You are saying that open 
> > source does not equal freedom, yet freedom is one of the cornerstones
> > of open source software.
> 
> I am saying that redhat is omitting education on the license, freedom
> and ethics in the area of open-source-now. What did not you understand.
> 
> I am not you raving GNULunatic.
> 
> > 
> > Actually much of this argument reminds me of when Linux Magazine (not
> > Linux Journal) introduced Microsoft-sponsored ads into their
> > magazine. 
> > Some people, including subscribers, were turned off and slammed LM
> > for
> > selling out, others wrote in defending the move.  (One noting that it
> > proved Microsoft was scared)
> > 
> > I believe authors should be able to protect their intellectual
> > property
> > (see my sci-fi argument in other posts).  
> > 
> > > The issue here that you are all forgetting is the students rights.
> > All
> > > this talk about IP and restrictions, no one is talke about the
> > > students. 
> > 
> > Students (like me) have the right to learn without an instructor and
> > without taking a course.  The fact that there are people out there 
> > writing books that I can go out and buy means I don't have to be
> > forced
> > to take someone's course - I'm free to learn on my own in my own
> > time. 
> > If I so choose I can also find HOWTO's, full books (O'Reilly DocBook)
> > and other free as in beer materials online to learn from.  
> 
> 
> But no one here is talking about the students rights. Noone is talking
> about students at all. They are just talking about their morgages,
> their houses, their luxary. 
What rights do you want as a student?  Maybe if you listed them we could
address them directly.  So far everything I have heard has more to do
with wants than rights.

Johnnie

> 
> I think some of the people here dont even think or care about the
> rights that they take from the students, as long as they can make a
> buck off of it.
> 
> mike
> 
> =====
> James Michael DuPont
> http://introspector.sourceforge.net/
> 
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