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Right now I'm so ticked with Microsoft. I just ghosted several machines
with ghost images containing legal copies of Office XP that came
installed from the factory on these new machines and the damn thing
wants the original disk to verify that it's not an illegal copy because
it has noticed new hardware, something that I don't have because they
came preinstalled from the factory with no Office XP disk before I made
the ghost image. So I'm going to have to uninstall office XP and
reinstall office 2000 even though I have legally paid for the stupid XP
so that my users can use word, outlook and the rest. If our county
didn't force us to use this ms crap I'd gather all the ms junk I have in
this entire school and send it right back to them. You will never see
that kind of behavior from a Linux vendor. If you think cost is the only
factor to consider making you want to switch to Linux you have a whole
other world of garbage to contend with as well. My opinion is that it's
going to get to the point where you need to provide DNA finger print
match to verify that you were the original License holder or worse. I
can't believe that the public allows this kind of behavior from a
company. I for one don't care if Red hat Linux is equally expensive as
Microsoft because they don't and won't treat their customers like
pre-convicted thieves. They also answer the phone with a live person
when you call. Or at least when I called. That never happens when you
call Microsoft. I can't wait till America and the World wakes up from
Microsoft's spell and boots them right out the door. I'm so mad now. I
have to waste a ton of time which is more valuable to me than that
stupid piece of software they are trying to prevent someone else from
stealing. It's like being legally locked out of your own car because you
had your seats reupholstered. I could rant for an hour but I won't.
Linux- Power to the People!
Take care,
Walter C. Hieber III
Network Manager
Denison Middle School
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 12:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: open-source-now-list digest, Vol 1 #679 - 6 msgs
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Today's Topics:
1. Updating expensive???? (Omar Olivos)
2. RE: N:] Updating expensive???? (Stewart M. Ives)
3. Re: Updating expensive???? (Kevin Cole)
4. Re: Updating expensive???? (Chris Spencer)
5. Re: Updating expensive???? (Jeremy Hogan)
6. Re: Updating expensive???? (mike)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: "Omar Olivos" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:33:40 -0500
Organization: Markham College
Subject: [OS:N:] Updating expensive????
Reply-To: [email protected]
I've just been told that paying for RHN gets as expensive as buying
Windows and using Windows Update.
Is that true??
Omar
--__--__--
Message: 2
From: "Stewart M. Ives" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:01:22 -0400
Subject: [OS:N:] RE: N:] Updating expensive????
Reply-To: [email protected]
This all depends on what you want to believe and how you have things
configured.
I support a local elementary school that is running a single RH Linux
7.2
server that provides all of the following to the Administration,
Teachers, &
Students:
Web based email & Internal Calendar - Open Source - OpenWebMail
Central file storage - Linux Srvr running Samba
Central & Class Calendars - Linux Open Source - WebCal
HTTP Server - School & Class Web Pages - Linux Apache
Central OnLine Library Card Catalog - Follett Software on Linux (not
open source)
Browser Content Filtering - WebSense/Cisco PIX/Linux (not open
source)
Shared Network Printing - HP
AntiVirus - Grisoft AVG - Grant to school by Grisoft
Server EMail AntiVirus - Open Source(MailScanner) & McAfee
Many others....
Try to do all that on a single Windows server.
To keep the server updated we subscribe to the RHN for either $60 or $65
per
year. That is all we pay period. If we had multiple RH servers or
workstations then we would put up our own internal update system for all
workstations/servers. We would still subscribe to RHN for the main
server
but all else would be serviced inhouse.
I'm sure this is going to be an active thread.
stew
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Omar Olivos
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [OS:N:] Updating expensive????
I've just been told that paying for RHN gets as expensive as buying
Windows and using Windows Update.
Is that true??
Omar
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--__--__--
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:59:49 -0400
From: Kevin Cole <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [OS:N:] Updating expensive????
Organization: Gallaudet Research Institute
Reply-To: [email protected]
On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 08:33:40AM -0500, Omar Olivos wrote:
> I've just been told that paying for RHN gets as expensive as buying
> Windows and using Windows Update.
> Is that true??
OPINION:
Microsoft is fond of making claims regarding the high cost in
personnel when talking about the total cost of Linux in general. But
if we're talking about the TOTAL cost of Windows, one has to take into
account unexplained crashes, the "inhale, reboot, exhale, reboot,
scratch left butt cheek, reboot, blink, reboot" cycle after installing
or upgrading just about anything under Windoze, the constant parade of
viruses, etc. So, in terms of the cost of lost time and productivity,
I'd have to say Linux comes out way cheaper, and I'd bet it remains so
even with the cost of RHN figured in.
--
Kevin Cole | Key ID: 0xE6F332C7
Gallaudet University | WWW:
http://gri.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/
Hall Memorial Bldg S-419 | V/TTY: (202) 651-5135
Washington, D.C. 20002-3695 | FAX: (202) 651-5746
--__--__--
Message: 4
Subject: Re: [OS:N:] Updating expensive????
From: Chris Spencer <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:35:23 -0500
Reply-To: [email protected]
It's a common claim. It's not true.
Their are many falicies in this argument. Here are a few things to
consider.
With Red Hat or and other Linux distribution you have built in
applications that you would otherwise have to pay additionally for with
Microsoft. Some examples of this are M$SQL versus MySQL, Exchange +
Norton (for AV/Spam) vs. PostFix (or another) + ClamAV + Spam Assassin,
etc.
Another thing that the argument fails to include is the client access
licenses.
Yet another thing that the argument fails to account for is the number
of services that can exist happily on a Linux server vs a Windows
server.
If you are talking about it for end user desktops the disparity in many
ways is even worse. The cost of the OS + Office/Productivity software +
and virus cleanup by far exceed the RHN subscription.
Moreover Red Hat is sponsoring Fedora which is entirely free. Even with
Red Hat 9 the license was completely 100% GPL and could be downloaded
and copied to all of your computers at no cost. Moreover considering
the number of other automatic and simple to use update tools (apt/yum)
there is no reason you would have needed to pay for RHN to get the same
functionality as windows update.
RHN gives you the central management interface so you can tell if your
computers are all updated from one screen and the ability to push out
the updates to the computer.
By no means under any stretch of the imagination can it be said that M$
is less expensive than Red Hat.
Moreover using open source and supporting free and open standards is
about more than just saving money. It's the right thing to do for the
future. Why should a company be able to get away with charging hundreds
or thousands of dollars for a product with an incremental cost of a few
bucks, provide no support or warranty about the products effectiveness,
and decrease market share.
Linux with the GPL make for a level playing field. Every competing
company is forced to compete based on the quality of their service and
support. Not upon artificial supply and demand restrictions.
Linux is a gift given to the world by hundreds of thousands of
developers who want to improve the world we live in. It's given and
shared freely.
The money paid is for support and service. If you care only about the
money, Debian is completely free.
-Chris
On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 08:33, Omar Olivos wrote:
> I've just been told that paying for RHN gets as expensive as buying
> Windows and using Windows Update.
> Is that true??
>
>
>
> Omar
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Subscription and Archive:
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"There is a lot of speculation and I guess there is going to continue to
be a log of speculation until the speculation ends." - George W. Bush on
October 18, 1998
--__--__--
Message: 5
Subject: Re: [OS:N:] Updating expensive????
From: Jeremy Hogan <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Organization: Red Hat, Inc.
Date: 09 Oct 2003 11:23:56 -0400
Reply-To: [email protected]
On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 09:33, Omar Olivos wrote:
> I've just been told that paying for RHN gets as expensive as buying
> Windows and using Windows Update.
> Is that true??
Windows Update only serves bits, RHN has management and monitoring,
group and role administration, etc.
--jeremy
--__--__--
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:34:42 -0500
From: mike <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [OS:N:] Updating expensive????
Reply-To: [email protected]
also, with due respect for jeremy and redhat, you can use any other
distribution. I like gentoo myself.
Jeremy Hogan wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 09:33, Omar Olivos wrote:
>
>>I've just been told that paying for RHN gets as expensive as buying
>>Windows and using Windows Update.
>>Is that true??
>
>
> Windows Update only serves bits, RHN has management and monitoring,
> group and role administration, etc.
>
> --jeremy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> For K12OS technical help join K12OSN:
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>
>
>
--
Michael H. Collins
http://linuxlink.com
http://www.honestvaclavs.com/
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