Re: SA Internet legislation

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On 6 September 2017 at 07:05, ox <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 22:56:33 +0200
> Roland Giesler <[email protected]> wrote:
> > No we don't need that type of legislation.  We have courts that until
> > now have served us well, in the online and bricks-and-mortar world.
>
> 99% of South Africans cannot take Google/facebook/Twitter/etc to the
> civil courts you are talking about.
>

=E2=80=8BThat's not what I talking about.  It's exactly the opposite.  For =
example:
I'm writing this on Google email services, and what if Google doesn't like
it (like is happening in their own campus_?  =E2=80=8BIf I say "bah" and Go=
ogle (or
rather their finely tuned algorithm) thinks that's racist or hate-speech,
they simply cut me off, suspend my service and there's nothing I can do.
Under the type of laws Germany is/has enacted, their hand would be
strengthened in this even more.  I'd much rather have a situation where
they cannot cut me off under SA law and they have to prove me guilty before
they can do that.

I'm guessing you're looking for something that will punish the wicked
people that don't like your tone or attitude and send you nasty messages.
You can fix that by not being nasty, or if they really slander you in
public, lay a charge against them (it's free of charge).  If such a process
costs you more than you can afford, then that system is broken and should
be fixed, but it will not be done by strengthening multi-national
corporations even more by making stupid laws.

There have been recent court cases in South Africa that have established
that the same principles that apply to people shouting abuse at each other
in public, apply to the online world, be it social media, blogs or what
ever.


>
> and, we (as I am one of the 99%) have no justice.
>


>
> > The last thing we want is another private policeforce that decides
> > that things that they don't like are hate speech and should be
> > deleted.
> >
> You say "No" and "last thing" - strong words and strong opinion you have.
>

=E2=80=8BAre you suggesting that strong words and strong opinions are not v=
alid or
allowed?=E2=80=8B


>
> Please be open and honest and tell us what your total court bill was
> when you last took Google (or any other multinational) to court?
>

=E2=80=8BI have had the anger of Telkom come down on me after I criticised=
=E2=80=8B them
(for lying) in a public forum.  I didn't go to jail and I didn't back
down.  Granted, it was many years ago, but I know I wasn't wrong and my
criticism was based on the truth.


>
> Was it less than R10 000 000 or more like R50 000 000 ?
>
> And, did you lose or win?
>
> And, even if you won, did you recover any of the R10-R50 million?
>
> Please share, as your view and strong opinions are very important.
>
> You did take a long time to reflect and consider your strong opinion,
> so I am sure you read the article and thought about your very
> strong views for a long time...
>

=E2=80=8BTsk, tsk, tsk.=E2=80=8B



>
> Andre
>
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> IOZ mailing list
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> http://lists.internet.org.za/mailman/listinfo/ioz
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?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Flists.internet.org.za%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fioz&userId=
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   On 6 September 2017 at 07:05, ox <[1][email protected]> wrote:

     On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 22:56:33 +0200
     Roland Giesler <[2][email protected]> wrote:
     > No we don't need that type of legislation.A  We have courts that
     until
     > now have served us well, in the online and bricks-and-mortar
     world.
     99% of South Africans cannot take Google/facebook/Twitter/etc to the
     civil courts you are talking about.

   aThat's not what I talking about.A  It's exactly the opposite.A  For
   example: I'm writing this on Google email services, and what if Google
   doesn't like it (like is happening in their own campus_?A  aIf I say
   "bah" and Google (or rather their finely tuned algorithm) thinks that's
   racist or hate-speech, they simply cut me off, suspend my service and
   there's nothing I can do.A  Under the type of laws Germany is/has
   enacted, their hand would be strengthened in this even more.A  I'd much
   rather have a situation where they cannot cut me off under SA law and
   they have to prove me guilty before they can do that.
   I'm guessing you're looking for something that will punish the wicked
   people that don't like your tone or attitude and send you nasty
   messages.A  You can fix that by not being nasty, or if they really
   slander you in public, lay a charge against them (it's free of
   charge).A  If such a process costs you more than you can afford, then
   that system is broken and should be fixed, but it will not be done by
   strengthening multi-national corporations even more by making stupid
   laws.
   There have been recent court cases in South Africa that have
   established that the same principles that apply to people shouting
   abuse at each other in public, apply to the online world, be it social
   media, blogs or what ever.
   A

     and, we (as I am one of the 99%) have no justice.

   A

     > The last thing we want is another private policeforce that decides
     > that things that they don't like are hate speech and should be
     > deleted.
     >
     You say "No" and "last thing" - strong words and strong opinion you
     have.

   aAre you suggesting that strong words and strong opinions are not valid
   or allowed?a
   A

     Please be open and honest and tell us what your total court bill was
     when you last took Google (or any other multinational) to court?

   aI have had the anger of Telkom come down on me after I criticiseda
   them (for lying) in a public forum.A  I didn't go to jail and I didn't
   back down.A  Granted, it was many years ago, but I know I wasn't wrong
   and my criticism was based on the truth.
   A

     Was it less than R10 000 000 or more like R50 000 000 ?
     And, did you lose or win?
     And, even if you won, did you recover any of the R10-R50 million?
     Please share, as your view and strong opinions are very important.
     You did take a long time to reflect and consider your strong
     opinion,
     so I am sure you read the article and thought about your very
     strong views for a long time...

   aTsk, tsk, tsk.a
   A

   Andre
   _______________________________________________
   IOZ mailing list
   [3][email protected]
   [4]http://lists.internet.org.za/mailman/listinfo/ioz

References

   1. mailto:[email protected]
   2. mailto:[email protected]
   3. mailto:[email protected]
   4. https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/bdf9625036aac983969450b3c5cae0fb734e071e?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.internet.org.za%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fioz&userId=996558&signature=3c17783b6815a0d3

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