Re: How much do you automate your automation?

Small note to add here, order of configuration change is possible in automation
and configuration management systems. Often the manual MOP/Playbook take
for granted the procedural ordering of changes that a configuration management
system can apply all at once across the board instantly. I think this
very issue has
caused some caos for organizations in the past.

On Wed, Apr 15, 2026 at 12:59 AM Saku Ytti via NANOG
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2026 at 22:37, Jon Lewis via NANOG <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > What I'm wondering is, how common is it to take the next logical step and
> > if you have a planned maintenance window to implement some simple change,
> > do you have an engineer manually make that change, manually execute a
> > script that implements the change, or use old-school automation (at) to
> > schedule a date & time at which the script that implements the change will
> > be run, and optionally have an engineer monitor that the change happened
> > and had the intended results?
>
> If you do deltas, this is a very difficult problem. Trying to
> reconcile how to move from A to B. This often leads to a network where
> some things are managed by automation, like interface/bgp turn-up,
> some things are managed by people. And the true state is the
> configuration backup, there is no way to recreate the entire config
> from data.
> Even the mentioned hyperscalers rarely actually manage 100% of config
> via system, they manage DC from system, but edge nodes may use the
> above process.
>
> If you ignore deltas, the problem becomes very simple. That is, if for
> any change, changing a dot in the description of one interface you
> ship an entire new configuration, and let the router worry about the
> reconciliation between the A and B configuration.
>
> Anyone can get to the latter option with trivial resources and skill,
> the former I wouldn't recommend to anyone, no matter how well
> resourced.
>
> The process to get to the latter is
>
> 1. put your configuration backups in your network configuration directory
> 2. edit the configuration file when needed
> 3. push the configuration file
>
> Now 100% comes from the system, and anyone can do this literally in minutes.
>
> Of course you're not exactly reducing much work here at all. But the
> point is, it doesn't need to be a risky project which may or may not
> deliver something. You can start today, and manage 100% of config in
> the system. Then one by one pick low hanging fruits, remove them from
> the flat file, generate them from SQL, and create the final
> configuration using the flat file + generated config.
> Now you always know what the network state is, there is no need for
> the flat file to ever be zero, that's not important.
>
> This deltaless configuration used to be quite poorly supported by
> vendors, but today it is nearly universally supported (Junos, SROS,
> IOS-XR, EOS all work), IOS-XE I'm not entirely sure if it works or
> not.
>
> --
>   ++ytti
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