Re: IPv4 flag day

NAT is fine (1:1), PAT is the cancer (1:Many).

> On Jun 17, 2026, at 1:40 PM, Douglas Fischer via NANOG <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> NAT is cancer!
> NAT in IPv6 is spreading cancer cells to all the organs of a new, healthy
> body.
> 
> NAT it's not just translate addresses... It needs to deal with the
> applications upper layers.
> NAT breaks everything that uses side-connections like P2P communications.
> 
> In other words, this idea that NAT66 can save dual-isp-home connections its
> a lie...
> It breaks the applications. Especially the end-to-end applications.
> 
> Suggesting this kind of solution just reinforces the cloud-server-centric
> non-opt-outable that we already live with.
> That is the work way to go!
> 
> 
> 
>> Em qua., 17 de jun. de 2026 às 12:45, Brandon Jackson via NANOG <
>> [email protected]> escreveu:
>> 
>> routerOS v7 (2021) supports IPv6 NAT66/NPT
>> A quick search also shows that Vyatta supports NAT66/NPT
>> edgeOS, well its Ubiquiti, what do you expect when trying to use trash?
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------
>> Brandon Jackson
>> [email protected]
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 11:29 AM Matthew Petach via NANOG
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 00:32 Marco Moock via NANOG <[email protected]
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Am 17.06.26 um 08:29 schrieb Vasilenko Eduard via NANOG:
>>>>> Has any CPE vendor implemented the redundancy NPTv6 scheme (with all
>>>> IPv6 features) that Matthew mentioned for NAT44?
>>>> 
>>>> No, as normal CPE devices are used by home users. They don't need that.
>>>> Business users buy professional devices and use BGP or other routing
>>>> protocols for real redundancy.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *facepalm*
>>> 
>>> No, my small business with 15 people doesn't buy Juniper routers with two
>>> BGP upstreams and pay ARIN for an ASN and provider independent IP space.
>>> 
>>> But it *does* still want to be able to get work done on the Internet when
>>> ISP A goes down by using ISP B.
>>> 
>>> You seem to be denying the existence of all the small businesses in the
>>> world.
>>> Given that Google estimates there are 200 to 400 million enterprises with
>>> less than 50 employees worldwide,  that's a pretty big chunk of the
>>> business world to ignore.
>>> 
>>> Or are you suggesting that 400 million small businesses should get their
>>> own ASNs and provider independent IPv6 space, and use BGP to gain
>>> redundancy for their businesses?
>>> 
>>> (talk about driving a demand for more router RAM for the DFZ core!   ;-P
>> )
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> Reminder: 6man WG makes all possible efforts to block NPTv6.
>>>> 
>>>> It already exists, IIRC Cisco IOS supports that.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Too bad every small business using edgeOS or Vyatta or routerOS is left
>>> out--no NPTv6 or NAT66 for them.  But that was some pretty good shilling
>>> for Cisco there.  ;)
>>> 
>>> In all seriousness, I hope we're coming to the realization that there's a
>>> big use case that is not currently well supported on the V6 world, and
>>> telling hundreds of millions of small businesses to add to the
>> BGP-speaking
>>> core routing tables is probably *not* the right answer.  Unless of course
>>> you want Geoff Huston to do a NANOG talk entitled "What The Hell Just
>>> Happened?" with a hockey-stick shaped graph showing the number of ASNs in
>>> the v6 routing tables.  :/
>>> 
>>> In summary: there are still technical hurdles to deploying IPv6 that we
>>> created through our decisions long ago that need to be solved before we
>> can
>>> start talking about sunsetting IPv4.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Matt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Gruß
>>>> Marco
>>>> Muell und Spam bitte an [email protected]
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> 
> 
> 
> --
> Douglas Fernando Fischer
> Engº de Controle e Automação
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