Re: Affordable TICSA LI Solution and Support

[email protected] Sat, 30 Jun 2018 17:28:27 +1200
Newsgroups gmane.org.operators.nznog
Message-ID <[email protected]>


55MPS will give max ~ 28G << 100G thruput @prema+sdf+64B+ifg. In the other direction, at 100G, with ave 512B your max is 20-25Mpps, in any case 40G is fine and you save
your firms $ on the 100G. Actually line capture at these speeds and thruputs have been doable for a good while now, mutli-Tbps is the challenge now. Capture/Filtering and processing are actually two different but interdependent things, as you know speed/thruput are normally qualified in terms
of packet sizes and app, nic profile:sustained/peak, For capture, L3 ACLs segment work etc its just fixed and static filtering; different to triggers which need higher state protocol/flow processing, db lookups, markov etc, alot more smarts and CPU CS this lowers the upper limit. CPU stats will be
very different.
regards
Brian
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------

Subject: Re: [nznog] Affordable TICSA LI Solution and Support

From: Joel Wirāmu Pauling <[email protected]>

Date: Sat, June 30, 2018 12:40 pm

To: [email protected]

Cc: "Shane Alcock" <shane.alcock-r/[email protected]>

"nznog" <[email protected]>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------



> You can achieve 55MPS from the latest generation of Smartnics - enough to

> do 100GBits ports, with Layer3 ACLs ; with almost no CPU overhead. This is

> running pretty much Mainline Linux (with Vendor Specific Smartnic offloads

> i.e ASAP2 (mellanox), or Netronome). You then obviously need to dump it

> somewhere but with some NVMEE Cards on x8 Bus you can do that too - before

> shuffling it to slow and cheap archival.

>

> So ; no you don't need any real hardware smarts to do this today, there is

> off the shelf bits you can add to off the shelf x86 hardware. Just a little

> planning of your Capture box hardware and knowing what NIC's to use.

>

> -Joel

>

> On 30 June 2018 at 11:39, <[email protected]> wrote:

>

>> Hi Shane,

>>

>> I appreciate your response and it sounds like you and the OpenLI team

>> making great progress, i wish the project and deployments all the best.

>> Writing packet capture isnt hard and anyone with a compiler can do it. Of

>> course a little coding b/gnd helps and depending on what your trying to do,

>> the level of hardware knowhow you need.

>>

>> Take 100% packet capture - 'shouldnt' be a problem at a constant 1 pps,

>> but it will be if you take 2 s to process. Lets say you optimize hw down .5

>> s with a DAG* (i worked their native's ~2004)* your still not going to

>> make it. Timing values are too ilustrate my point and my take away from you

>> response is OpenLI is basically targeting the general usecase here in NZ

>> where say GE or 10G ~50/60 pk. % link utilization is still pretty OK and

>> fit-for-purpose. I assume here your OpenLI app (NWO->IAF/MF

>> ASN.1Enc/MD->HI) is well optimized from your excellent experience too. One

>> suggestion maybe to bench it with XIA/Spirent STC for thruput vs

>> line-rate/packet sizes vs expected from NOC. I dont use cap libraries or

>> anything like that myself, my arch/interface is very different in exo/no

>> net_dev, zero intr,dis flow handling depending on the ICs i got on hand (i

>> have a french foreign legion policy for hardware - survive the bench and

>> your in ). LI started here in NZ but was taken to another level in the US

>> with massive linerates and volumes - vetting starts with corner case

>> burntests, sinking IPGs <9.7ns ..<.97ns (100G+) with 1 Target frame - and

>> if you can catchit send try to send that 1 frame, only after that you get

>> to do something usefull and process it. Sounds easy as you can appreciate

>> back in the day with north/south PCIE this was a massive feat, no SoCs

>> root/pcie qpi we have today.

>>

>> Obviously this level of performance is bit OTT for our general LI small

>> ISP market, but data volumes aint gonna go down - cheers for the heads up.

>> Again wish you and the OpenLI project team much success.

>>

>> regards

>>

>> Brian Parsons BE(E&EE) MIEE | CEO TFE | LI TICSA SIGINT

>>

>> ---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------

>> Subject: Re: [nznog] Affordable TICSA LI Solution and Support

>>

From: "Shane Alcock" <shane.alcock-r/[email protected]>

>> Date: Fri, June 29, 2018 2:38 pm

>> To: [email protected]

>> Cc: [email protected]

>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> > Hi Brian, all,

>> >

>> > As the primary developer on the OpenLI project, I've been asked to

>> address

>> > some points that you've raised and correct any misconceptions people

>> might

>> > have about OpenLI as a result of this thread.

>> >

>> > For anyone concerned about a possible lack of experience in writing

>> packet

>> > capture software, most of my 14 years working here at the WAND network

>> > research group has been dedicated to both writing and running software

>> for

>> > high speed passive capture and analysis projects. I am one of the primary

>> > authors and maintainers of libtrace [1] [2], which is widely used both in

>> > academia and industry (as well as the OpenLI software itself). Libtrace

>> > supports a variety of capture methods and hardware, including DAG and

>> DPDK,

>> > and has a parallel API for writing multi-threaded packet capture

>> > applications, so I have a reasonable understanding of what is required of

>> > both hardware and software to do high-rate packet capture and encoding.

>> >

>> > OpenLI is not offering a "complete" solution to your TICSA problems. We

>> > provide software that can capture packets and convert them into ETSI

>> > records, wrapped in a centralised provisioning system for managing

>> > intercepts, along with a mediation function that will push the resulting

>> > records to the appropriate agency. Integration of OpenLI into your

>> network

>> > is a matter for the operator; however, we have been working closely with

>> > the organisations that responded to our initial requests for funding to

>> get

>> > their deployments up and running.

>> >

>> > Longer term, we are starting to have conversations about what support

>> > models we want to provide in the future, especially after the feedback I

>> > received at the NZIX AGM last night, so watch this space. WAND has a long

>> > history of maintaining and continually improving any open-source software

>> > that it has released to the public [3] even when it is no longer

>> > specifically funded by our research income (libtrace being a prime

>> > example), so if OpenLI is being used then you can anticipate that WAND

>> will

>> > continue to look after it.

>> >

>> > Finally, the core software components of OpenLI are getting close to

>> > complete. We have provisioning, mediation, multi-threaded and

>> > multi-input-interface distributable collectors. We have support for voice

>> > intercept (SIP + RTP + RTCP) and support for standard IP intercept

>> (RADIUS

>> > + IPv4), with IPv6 and static IP range intercepts not too far away. Most

>> of

>> > the upcoming effort is focused on getting test deployments working within

>> > our partner networks, throwing "real" traffic at them and squashing any

>> > issues that come up. At this stage, it's looking like another month or

>> two

>> > of work to finish the original set of requirements.

>> >

>> > Any other questions about the OpenLI project, feel free to get in touch

>> > with me directly.

>> >

>> > [1] S.Alcock, P. Lorier and R. Nelson, "Libtrace: a packet capture and

>> > analysis library", https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2185382

>> > [2] Libtrace Team, "libtrace: C library for working with network packet

>> > traces", https://github.com/LibtraceTeam/libtrace

>> > [3] WAND network research group on GitHub, https://github.com/wanduow

>> >

>> > Thanks,

>> >

>> > Shane

>> >

>> > On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 11:49 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:

>> >

>> >> Hi Nathan,

>> >>

>> >> We dont work with the NSA, and you dont need them to decrypt mobile data

>> >> there are many keys used in a heirachy depending on the pairing mobile

>> >> nodes eNB/UE/MME/HSS etc, you just need to be on the right interface to

>> >> catch and process the exchange Control/User Plane (keys vary) is trivial

>> >> for LI vendors like myself who carry key derivation/enc/dec logic and

>> >> protocol sequencing to handle such an exchange. eg UE/HSS:CK,IK - a well

>> >> known mapping is your USIM/AuC:K. As far as knocking on doors, yes

>> >> absolutely probably me, i sell and support what I build and proud of

>> it, but

>> >> NSA lol, but we sell more off shore - why is that?

>> >>

>> >> My post was only intended to inform of a local option that could make a

>> >> material difference to operators trying to meet their obligations under

>> the

>> >> ACT.

>> >>

>> >> As an LI provider i have met a couple of your members stung badly after

>> >> signing offshore and we couldve helped them, also i was encouraged by

>> the

>> >> LEAs that speak at your conference - they obviously cant directly

>> endorse

>> >> but the spirit and intention of my post was not to offend just inform.

>> TFE

>> >> like most LI vendors do not advertise or market, and there are only a

>> >> handfull of us OEMs that build LI solutions the rest are reseller middle

>> >> men.

>> >>

>> >> As far as OpenLI free it is your developing, thats great but till then

>> >> compliance is real, but we wish you all the best. 2050 is when you'l

>> have

>> >> enough field experience in CU/FIbre/hardware with ASN.1 + ETSI/CALEA at

>> >> working at single thread code level. Lets say you do cobble something

>> >> together before then - once you can multithread your kernel (tuplet

>> flows)

>> >> linerate 200g (64B) stream + LI let me know, sorry lets make it easy -

>> >> start with GE @ 1.44 Mpps + LI and ASN enc over HI => garauntee you a

>> DoS

>> >> all day and dont even think about SLAs. But good luck with that, until

>> then

>> >> TICSA 2017

>> >>

>> >> The point is LI is not just about about Software. Hardware, firmware and

>> >> real world field experience is required - how do you handle FEXT/NEXT on

>> >> upstream active/passive TAPs can you run in rx only given the

>> requirements

>> >> and restrictions on spurious noise and traffic, there are many tech and

>> >> capability requirements of the probe/mf which ETSI Parts are you going

>> to

>> >> do first?. HA/asymmetric network deployments (non-collo paths), how will

>> >> you handle this situ? and TIER 4 support on commercial fabrics (Open

>> >> generally means zip support - so i geuss nothing is realtime). If you do

>> >> all this how will you be able to demonstrate at any point in time the

>> two

>> >> core aspects of TICSA 'format usability' and 'nw readiness'.

>> >>

>> >> We do LI not 'network security', ie. we build the 'device' and MF as

>> >> descirbed in the NZ Search and Surveillance Act 2012 and NZ TICSA 2017.

>> >>

>> >> regards

>> >>

>> >> Brian Parsons BE(E&EE) MIEE | CEO TFE | LI TICSA SIGINT

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> cheers

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ---------------------------- Original Message

>> ----------------------------

>> >> Subject: Re: [nznog] Affordable TICSA LI Solution and Support

>> >>

>>

From: "Nathan Ward" <[email protected]>

>> >> Date: Wed, June 27, 2018 10:06 pm

>> >> To: [email protected]

>> >> Cc: [email protected]

>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------

>> --------------

>> >>

>> >> >

>> >> >> On 27/06/2018, at 11:45 AM, [email protected] wrote:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> We are Telecom Forensics, an OEM of LI solutions based on the Kapiti

>> >> Coast.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Spam spam spam

>> >> >

>> >> > Are you the chap from Kapiti who a few years ago was knocking about

>> >> claiming that the NSA had given him some sort of secret codes to

>> magically

>> >> decrypt all mobile data, or was that someone else?

>> >> >

>> >> > Not too sure why you&rsquo;d be pushing this here, when there&rsquo;s a community

>> >> effort to develop something open source and free.

>> >>

>> >> I&rsquo;m looking forward to where the OpenLI project goes, and I&rsquo;d suggest

>> that

>> >> anyone looking for LI tools look towards the OpenLI project, which has

>> been

>> >> discussed on this before, and at the NZNOG conference, and I believe

>> will

>> >> be discussed tomorrow at the NZIX AGM.

>> >> > ps. It&rsquo;s free, but, go support it with some $, it&rsquo;ll still be cheaper

>> >> than commercial solutions.

>> >> >

>> >> > NZ: Highest per capita ETSI compliant LI implementors in the world.

>> >> >

>> >> > How long before Fincham pops up saying &ldquo;oh also there&rsquo;s an OpenLI

>> >> project you should look at&rdquo;? Place your bets.

>> >> >

>> >> > Looking forward to laughing about this one over drinks tomorrow night.

>> >> >

>> >> > --

>> >> > Nathan Ward

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> NZNOG mailing list

>> >> [email protected]

>> >> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

>> >>

>> >>

>> >

>>

>>

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>>

>

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