Re: Fwd: Using uncertain date information in Chandler

Hi

I managed to get some of my old Java application working. It was a proof of
concept, so I hope you can life with some odd colors and rendering problems.
Unfortunately I could not get the chronogramm view working -- and I do not
want to invest more time on it (I can make a mock-up, if you are
interested).

Please see the attached screeshots. The contents is explained below.
(Actually the text in the application is in German, but you will get the
point).

# gantt.gif:
* The milestones and tasks are part of different collections, and therefore
they are rendered in different sections
* The milestones are rendered with different colors depending on whether
they are precise or not. If they are not, then a line is indicating the
uncertainty range.
* A task is shown with dark blue for the certain part and light blue for the
uncertain part. If e.g. the start date is precise, then an icon shows that.
* For the highlighted milestone/task a natural language string for the
date(range) is given. The text to the left is just meant as a translation
for you -- normally this would be the title of the milestone/task.

# gantt_with_detail.gif:
* The details of a milestone / task can be seen in a popup (not needed in
Chandler).

# milestone_precise.gif etc.
* On top right you first choose whether it is a milestone/point in time or a
task/time range.
* Then you choose which type of precision the date has. In this case it is
precise.
* A natural language string is automatically calculated in the first gray
field on the left -- both for milestones and tasks.
* Depending on the precision the drop-down lists show different contents.

This is not intended as a blueprint for Chandler, just my input. I hope it
might clarify some of my points/wishes :-)

Rick

2007/11/14, Davor Cubranic <[email protected]>:
>
> This functionality would be awesome, but while I can see how it would
> work nicely for Gantt charts, I'm not so sure in a regular calendar view
> that most people are used to (and use most often). Calculating a
> "best-guess" date "on-the-fly" and showing that in calendars sounds a
> little too much like magic.  One could also treat fuzzy deadlines as a
> sort of multi-date event that starts off almost faded out and then gets
> more visually solid as the deadline approaches, but that seems like it
> would take a lot of real estate.
>
> Davor
>
>
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007, Mimi Yin wrote:
>
> > I am forwarding an email exchange with Rick Gruber-Reimer that is a
> different
> > take on the "soft-deadlines" discussion we've been having for the past
> month:
> > http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/design/2007-October/007757.html
> >
> > The functionality Rick describes below is something he built for a
> planning
> > tool years ago and he has promised to try and get some screenshots
> together.
> > Looking forward to seeing them!
> >
> > Mimi
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> >> From: Mimi Yin <[email protected]>
> >> Date: November 13, 2007 9:43:07 AM PST
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Cc: Heikki Toivonen <[email protected]>, Jeffrey Harris
> >> <[email protected]>
> >> Subject: Re: Using uncertain date information in Chandler
> >>
> >> Hi Rick,
> >>
> >> The short answer is Yes! This kind of flexibility around dates is very
> >> much in keeping with our notion of 'fuzzy time-management' in Chandler.
> >>
> >> We currently have a way of specifying events that span date-ranges, but
> >> are distinct from all-day / multi-day events. We call them 'anytime
> >> events'. The idea is that you can schedule things for 'Any time Today'
> or
> >> 'Any time during some time span.'
> >>
> >> However, we'd like to expand fuzzy-date functionality to include things
> >> like: End of Week, End of Nov 2007, some time this month. See
> discussion
> >> re 'Soft deadlines' on the design list: http://
> >> lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/design/2007-October/007757.html
> >>
> >> See more in-line...
> >>
> >> On Nov 12, 2007, at 5:06 AM, Rick Gruber-Riemer wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Mimi
> >>>
> >>> As you can see in the forwarded email below Heikki thinks that I
> should
> >>> discuss an idea about using uncertain date information in Chandler
> >>> (desktop) with you. Let me describe shortly my thoughts:
> >>>
> >>> Basically I would like to be able to be precise about not being
> precise
> >>> regarding dates ("uncertainty). E.g. if I mean "End of November 2007"
> I
> >>> have to choose a precise date in the calendar in all tools I know and
> >>> would potentially pick the 25th of November 2007. But that is wrong,
> >>> because my best guess is "End of November 2007", which typically means
> >>> somewhere between the 20th and 30th of November. The same applies to
> >>> "middle of 2008", "beginning week 24", "first quarter of 2009". When
> you
> >>> then know more about the probable date you can always get more precice
> >>> -- e.g. from "first quarter of 2009" to "beginning of February 2009"
> to
> >>> "2nd of February 2009".
> >>> So depending on how certain you are about a date (precice => day/
> >>> month/year; else week level, month level, quarter level, year level)
> you
> >>> first pick the uncertainty type and then you are presented with a
> >>> different set of drop-down menues. E.g. week-number, quarters or
> months,
> >>> year is always displayed. If the date is uncertain you additionally
> get
> >>> to choose one out of four values: "", "beginning", "middle", "end". In
> >>> the UI the date is represented as a natural language string. Behind
> the
> >>> scenes the info is NOT stored as a date, but for graphical
> >>> representation in e.g. a calendar or GANTT several virtual dates are
> >>> calculated on-the-fly: earliest, best-guess and latest date and then
> >>> this uncertainty is shown (in a calendar view probably only the best-
> >>> guess with some icon indicator for uncertainty and an extra text
> >>> representation; in a GANTT you can show the whole uncertainty range.)
> >>> I programmed this as a planning tool years ago with GANTT-chart and
> >>> chronogramm representation -- and am still missing it in my daily
> tools.
> >>> There are a lot of display, data storage (e.g. VCALENDAR is not
> enough)
> >>> etc. challenges and it would probably not do well as a plugin in
> >>> Chandler - but evt. ok to start with. To begin with dates/milestones
> are
> >>> enough, my dream is naturally to have date-ranges, too.
> >>>
> >>> => Is this something you have been discusing before? If yes: thumbs up
> >>> or down?
> >> Thumbs up.
> >>>
> >>> => Would it be stretching the idea of Chandler too much?
> >> Nope. It's dead-on and very much in keeping with where we'd like to go.
> >>
> >> Thanks Rick. Best,
> >>
> >> Mimi
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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