Fwd: [chandler-users] Chandler + GTD

I made a post to chandler-users that might concern watchers of chandler-design
http://lists.osafoundation.org/archives/chandler-users/200711.mbox/ajax/%[email protected]%3e
Reproduced below:

Hi, Philippe.

I have been independently toying with the idea of having
collections/tags show up as tabs. This is essentially what is done for
the Calendar interface. Why not apply it to the other items (Mail,
Tasks) as well?

The way I envision it, all (or a user-definable subset) of the
collections can appear horizontally as a tab-bar near the top. Each of
these tabs have a check button. Clicking the check button makes the
elements within the tab appear on the item list (or calendar). This
tabulation would provide a more cohesive experience between the
Calendar view and the item list view.* Of course, the same
functionality could be offered with the interface the currently
exists: make the filtering that occurs with the Calendar also apply to
item lists. I just like the poetry of having tags appear as tabs.

More to follow...

Footnotes
* I find it non-intuitive that when I hit the "All" button, only items
in the selected collection appear. However, when I select "Events",
the overlay of the checked collection appears in the Calendar.


On Nov 30, 2007 12:37 PM, Poojan Wagh <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi, Philippe.
>
> I have been independently toying with the idea of having
> collections/tags show up as tabs. This is essentially what is done for
> the Calendar interface. Why not apply it to the other items (Mail,
> Tasks) as well?
>
> The way I envision it, all (or a user-definable subset) of the
> collections can appear horizontally as a tab-bar near the top. Each of
> these tabs have a check button. Clicking the check button makes the
> elements within the tab appear on the item list (or calendar). This
> tabulation would provide a more cohesive experience between the
> Calendar view and the item list view.* Of course, the same
> functionality could be offered with the interface the currently
> exists: make the filtering that occurs with the Calendar also apply to
> item lists. I just like the poetry of having tags appear as tabs.
>
> More to follow...
>
> Footnotes
> * I find it non-intuitive that when I hit the "All" button, only items
> in the selected collection appear. However, when I select "Events",
> the overlay of the checked collection appears in the Calendar.
>
> --
> Poojan
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2007 12:43 AM, Philippe Bossut <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm of a different point of view on the use of collections. I decided to
> > totally embrace the fact that collections are not disjoint sets (one
> > element can be in several) and I therefore use them more as "tags" (or
> > "play lists") and create them very liberally. Currently, I'm using 17
> > collections and I'm refraining to create more only because of some UI
> > oddities, chiefly among them, the fact I can't reorder them at will. But
> > that aside...
> >
> > *Theory*
> > I think there is a very strong incentive to use one single vanilla
> > mechanism to group elements instead of creating a bunch of categories
> > (clusters, collections, tags, labels, etc...) with similar but different
> > properties. For the same reason we believed there shouldn't be different
> > kind of items ("no silo"), one shouldn't invent different kind of sets.
> > So, humor me a little here and make that claim: the collection is the
> > only single grouping mechanism we really need.
> >
> > *UI*
> > Of course, we need a *better* UI than the one we have today so that we
> > can indeed make use of gazillions of collections (or call them tags, or
> > labels, or clusters...). So here's a short list a incremental UI
> > improvements that'd go a long way (in order of priority):
> > - allow collection to be "hidden" from the sidebar: one should have a
> > list of all user defined collections in the collection menu (or, better,
> > a specialized view if we have gazillions of them...) and be able to
> > check them or not to make them viewable in the side bar. If I had that
> > feature today, I could reduce my list of 17 collections to 5 (the one I
> > consult everyday) and pop into view the one I need only rarely when I
> > need them. Also, in the mind of the user, this create a neat equivalence
> > between tag (hidden collection) and folder (viewed collection),
> > although, internally, there's no real difference and one can become the
> > other at will.
> > - allow the "Appears in" widget to be editable: that's one of my pet
> > peeve but, really, it's frustrating to have that list there and not
> > being able to edit it, particularly when you want simply to "remove" the
> > item from a collection. This would make tagging easier also: simply add
> > the tag there.
> > - allow collections/tags to be created "on the fly" in the quick entry
> > field: additionally to editing the appears in, one should be able to
> > type "/tag foo" and have all the selected items dropped into said foo
> > collection. If that collection/tag doesn't exist, just create it.
> > Infinitely faster than drag and drop (the only way we have today to move
> > items). Also, imagine the power of that scenario: type "/find foo",
> > select all the results, type "/tag foo" and you created a collection of
> > all your foo items reusable any time.
> > - allow computed collections to be defined in the quick entry: cheery on
> > the cake, one should be able to create a computed collection using
> > logic. e.g. type "/collection stuff = foo AND bar" and you create a
> > collection that's the union of those 2 sets. Note that we have that
> > logic in the repo today. It's a very geeky feature (so last in my prio
> > order :) ) but incredibly powerful.
> >
> > Well, ok, that last point is may be too much. But I think the first 3
> > ones would go a long way to address the clustering items issue pointed
> > to by Poojan initially.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > - Philippe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mimi Yin wrote:
> > > Hi Poojan,
> > >
> > > This is a good, but hard question to answer. I know there are other
> > > GTD practitioners on the list, so please pipe up with your own
> > > experiences!
> > >
> > > In my experience, Chandler Collections are too heavyweight for GTD
> > > projects, which are intended to be bite-size and are therefore too
> > > numerous to really fit in the sidebar.
> > >
> > > The short answer is that Chandler's version of GTD 'projects' is:
> > > 1. Create an item for the project and mark it as a Task.
> > > 2. Jot down next actions and related thoughts in the Notes field of
> > > the Task item.
> > > 3. Cycle the Task item between NOW and LATER as your make progress on
> > > the project.
> > >
> > > I even go so far as to track Done and Un-Done 'sub-tasks' in the Notes
> > > field.
> > >
> > > This is clearly a hack. But one thing to note is that David Allen
> > > himself advises people *against* spelling out the list of sub-tasks.
> > > Just write down the Next Action.
> > >
> > > Nevertheless, as sub-tasks emerge from projects, there's no question
> > > that there's a real need to be able to group and order items together
> > > into "something more than an item, but less than a collection". In
> > > past design discussions, we've called this grouping a *cluster*. It's
> > > something akin to an email thread, but more flexible in that clusters
> > > are *not* limited to just email, members of the cluster can be members
> > > of multiple clusters, and users should be able to add/remove items
> > > from a cluster.
> > >
> > > You can read more about clusters under "Lightweight Organization, aka
> > > Project Management, aka Clusters" on this page:
> > > http://chandlerproject.org/Product/ProcessingInformationTriageDashboardClusters
> > >
> > >
> > > Re:
> > >> Once I do item #1 I want item #2 to appear on my "Now" list. Is this
> > >> function possible?
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm not sure there is a 1:1 mapping between Triage Status (NOW, LATER,
> > > DONE) and whether a task is blocked versus not blocked. Meaning, just
> > > because #1 is DONE and #2 is up-next, doesn't necessarily mean NOW is
> > > a good time to address #2.
> > >
> > > For example, if I have a GTD project around attending a wedding
> > > scheduled for 6 months from Today. I may need to send in the RSVP for
> > > the wedding next week, but don't really need to or want to worry about
> > > the wedding gift for another 4-5 months. (Actually, isn't the
> > > acceptable timeframe for wedding gifts, up-to-1 year after the wedding?)
> > >
> > > Another thought is that sub-tasks aren't always linear. In fact, more
> > > often than not, they aren't. If you're at the bank, but haven't made
> > > the call to schedule a time with the mechanic, you might go ahead and
> > > transfer the money anyway, just because then it'd be done and you
> > > wouldn't have to worry about it. Arrange drop-off and pick-up might or
> > > might not be the same person, depending on the kindness and
> > > availability of your friends ;)
> > >
> > > Anyhow, the long and short of it is, Today, there is a way to model
> > > GTD projects as individual Task items in Chandler today. Longer term,
> > > we're looking at Clusters as a way to flesh out the project tracking
> > > workflows you're describing.
> > >
> > > Anybody else have personal experiences that might lend some insight on
> > > this topic?
> > >
> > > Mimi
> > >
> > > On Nov 17, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Poojan Wagh wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi, Users.
> > >>
> > >> I was wondering how things in GTD map to Chandler, and I was wondering
> > >> if any of the other users have a workflow in Chandler that seems to work
> > >> well. I have a few specific questions about how Chandler works with the
> > >> typical GTD scheme.
> > >>
> > >> For example, let's suppose I create a project "Get car fixed" in
> > >> Chandler (as a collection). I then have the following actions: 1. Call
> > >> mechanic for an estimate & appointment 2. Transfer cash to checking
> > >> account 3. Arrange for a drop-off ride 4. Arrange for a pick up ride
> > >>
> > >> Is there an easy way in Chandler to designate one of these actionable,
> > >> and defer the others? Once I do item #1 I want item #2 to appear on my
> > >> "Now" list. Is this function possible? Is this capability planned? Can I
> > >> do it without looking through all my deferred actions and re-assigning
> > >> an order?
> > >>
> > >> I have more questions, but I will save them for later.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Poojan
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> chandler-users mailing list
> > >> [email protected]
> > >> http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > chandler-users mailing list
> > > [email protected]
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> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
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