Re: linux jobs?
Richard Ford <[email protected]> Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:33:02 +0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.user-groups.linux.beijing.tech |
|---|---|
| Organization | Creditude |
| Message-ID | <1127385182.5678.17.camel__30328.641125425$1127385301$gmane$org@peach> |
--===============1405585099== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-hrd/Vx3RX3sVfUSFBhSt" --=-hrd/Vx3RX3sVfUSFBhSt Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G'Day Max, Just to add to what Graham added (a reread of my email came across quite blunt!). I have worked on a few projects lately and there are A LOT of foreign students offering up their time for internships. As well as post grads who are looking to take a sabbatical of sorts. When I first came to China looking for work in 99 it was impossible to get real job. I was offered some internships at places like Siemens and Pfizer - but they were for accounting (my other degree) and were not interested in IT at all - despite all my years and experience in tech work relative to my pathetic real world experience in bean counting. In the end - I found work through networking and accidental at that. I was not networking to find a job - I was networking to meet people as I came to China not to get a job (Who wants to live like 3rd world person all their life?) but moreover to be entrepreneurial and I came very close myself with my own business with RedHat until certain issues arose (financial backing red tape, legal issues and Redhat's own restrictions and policy adjustments). I think it is unwise to think of China as a place to just replicate your lifestyle/work/job/career as you would back home - and to replicate how you go about managing those topics too. There is no need for foreigners like that here and no one will pay the rates of pay that they want. So in a sense I was lucky - I fell into a crowd of like minded people, there was a fit and the rest is history - still working on the "Making history part". What I have learnt though is that the need for foreigners was decreasing very rapidly as many companies here localised. However due to that not taking hold as well as it could have - it has slowed down a bit - but the end goal is the same. Less foreigners and more locals - for many reasons and wages and language are only a part of that. Others included the ability for teams to be made and work together and also the impression and dynamic that a foreigners presence can cause - not always liked/needed/beneficial. Other things you need to be very wary of are language. Again - if you are looking for work as opposed to being "posted or sent" here - then you WILL NEED TO SPEAK CHINESE. At some level at least around low- intermediate. You also need to be able to bring the skills that are lacking - and that is not always tech. It is management skills, organisational skills and problem solving skills. But even those skills have to be adapted to China from your home country and in some cases re learnt again. To get a job on the pure merits of your tech skill, you would have to be good, really good and really cutting edge and almost at a university level research grade of good. Otherwise there is no real advantage in your tech over the best of the Chinese who will work for less - or in some cases work for a foreign wage - but speak two or more language fluently AND understand the culture AND are local which always is preferred these days. I don't want to throw a dampener on things - just being realistic and these are my observations and opinions based on my time in China and working here. Ultimately you need to want to come here and make your own future and opportunities and go out there and make it happen yourself off your own back - that is the only way I feel one can come into China cold turkey and have any chance of success. Oh - and be prepared to work like hard and give it 200%. Very tiring - but if it IS YOUR DREAM to be something here in China and come here to make a mark and do something that you could not do back home due to the developed nature of the 1st world - then - while it is back breaking, health destroying, free time decapitating, stress inducing hell - it is kinda fun and very rewarding. Better to regret failing than never trying....... Cheers, Richard. On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 17:20 +0800, Graham Brown wrote: > Dear Max, > > There are always jobs in Beijing for people with reasonable skills, > including linux skills. (Whatever they are). The problem is to get paid > enough to live on. > > If you are thinking of sysadm type stuff, Chinese cs graduates are > relatively cheap, but often unaware of linux in any useful sense. > > If you can code well, there are opportunities also. I seem to recall > Bjorn commenting once that he was looking for good people. In this area > too, there are Chinese who are reltively cheap. > > You are also up against foreign students who hope to put soem work > experience on their CV before they return home. Depending on the field, > many work for nothing or very little. > > What exactly are you looking for? > > Graham Brown > > > Richard Ford wrote: > > Not really unless you are a local. > > > > If you are a foreigner, brush up on the mandarin and start networking. > > > > That is the only way unless you are a top world renowned tech - then you > > would not need to ask these questions because the head hunters got to > > you first. > > > > Cheers, > > RF. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2005-09-05 at 09:53 +0800, Max Waterman wrote: > > > > > >>Hi, > >> > >>Is there a good place to look for Linux jobs in Beijing? > >> > >>Thanks. > >> > >>Max. > >>_______________________________________________ > >>blug-tech list > >>[email protected] > >>http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-tech > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blug-tech list > > [email protected] > > http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-tech --=-hrd/Vx3RX3sVfUSFBhSt Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 TRANSITIONAL//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=UTF-8"> <META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="GtkHTML/3.3.2"> </HEAD> <BODY> G'Day Max,<BR> <BR> Just to add to what Graham added (a reread of my email came across quite blunt!). I have worked on a few projects lately and there are A LOT of foreign students offering up their time for internships. As well as post grads who are looking to take a sabbatical of sorts.<BR> <BR> When I first came to China looking for work in 99 it was impossible to get real job. I was offered some internships at places like Siemens and Pfizer - but they were for accounting (my other degree) and were not interested in IT at all - despite all my years and experience in tech work relative to my pathetic real world experience in bean counting.<BR> <BR> In the end - I found work through networking and accidental at that. I was not networking to find a job - I was networking to meet people as I came to China not to get a job (Who wants to live like 3rd world person all their life?) but moreover to be entrepreneurial and I came very close myself with my own business with RedHat until certain issues arose (financial backing red tape, legal issues and Redhat's own restrictions and policy adjustments). I think it is unwise to think of China as a place to just replicate your lifestyle/work/job/career as you would back home - and to replicate how you go about managing those topics too. There is no need for foreigners like that here and no one will pay the rates of pay that they want.<BR> <BR> So in a sense I was lucky - I fell into a crowd of like minded people, there was a fit and the rest is history - still working on the "Making history part".<BR> <BR> What I have learnt though is that the need for foreigners was decreasing very rapidly as many companies here localised. However due to that not taking hold as well as it could have - it has slowed down a bit - but the end goal is the same. Less foreigners and more locals - for many reasons and wages and language are only a part of that. Others included the ability for teams to be made and work together and also the impression and dynamic that a foreigners presence can cause - not always liked/needed/beneficial.<BR> <BR> Other things you need to be very wary of are language. Again - if you are looking for work as opposed to being "posted or sent" here - then you WILL NEED TO SPEAK CHINESE. At some level at least around low-intermediate. You also need to be able to bring the skills that are lacking - and that is not always tech. It is management skills, organisational skills and problem solving skills. But even those skills have to be adapted to China from your home country and in some cases re learnt again.<BR> <BR> To get a job on the pure merits of your tech skill, you would have to be good, really good and really cutting edge and almost at a university level research grade of good. Otherwise there is no real advantage in your tech over the best of the Chinese who will work for less - or in some cases work for a foreign wage - but speak two or more language fluently AND understand the culture AND are local which always is preferred these days.<BR> <BR> I don't want to throw a dampener on things - just being realistic and these are my observations and opinions based on my time in China and working here. Ultimately you need to want to come here and make your own future and opportunities and go out there and make it happen yourself off your own back - that is the only way I feel one can come into China cold turkey and have any chance of success.<BR> <BR> Oh - and be prepared to work like hard and give it 200%. Very tiring - but if it IS YOUR DREAM to be something here in China and come here to make a mark and do something that you could not do back home due to the developed nature of the 1st world - then - while it is back breaking, health destroying, free time decapitating, stress inducing hell - it is kinda fun and very rewarding.<BR> <BR> Better to regret failing than never trying.......<BR> <BR> Cheers,<BR> Richard.<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 17:20 +0800, Graham Brown wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <PRE> <FONT COLOR="#000000">Dear Max,</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">There are always jobs in Beijing for people with reasonable skills, </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">including linux skills. (Whatever they are). The problem is to get paid </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">enough to live on.</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">If you are thinking of sysadm type stuff, Chinese cs graduates are </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">relatively cheap, but often unaware of linux in any useful sense.</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">If you can code well, there are opportunities also. I seem to recall </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">Bjorn commenting once that he was looking for good people. In this area </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">too, there are Chinese who are reltively cheap.</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">You are also up against foreign students who hope to put soem work </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">experience on their CV before they return home. Depending on the field, </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">many work for nothing or very little.</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">What exactly are you looking for?</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">Graham Brown</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">Richard Ford wrote:</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> Not really unless you are a local.</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> If you are a foreigner, brush up on the mandarin and start networking. </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> That is the only way unless you are a top world renowned tech - then you</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> would not need to ask these questions because the head hunters got to</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> you first.</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> Cheers,</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> RF.</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> On Mon, 2005-09-05 at 09:53 +0800, Max Waterman wrote:</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>>Hi,</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>>Is there a good place to look for Linux jobs in Beijing?</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>>Thanks.</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>>Max.</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>>_______________________________________________</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>>blug-tech list</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>><A HREF="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">>><A HREF="http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-tech">http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-tech</A></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> ------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> _______________________________________________</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> blug-tech list</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> <A HREF="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000">> <A HREF="http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-tech">http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-tech</A></FONT> </PRE> </BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML> --=-hrd/Vx3RX3sVfUSFBhSt-- --===============1405585099== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline