RE: Non - Linux - But good article

I was talking about buildings.....!!!


;-)


Not people!  ;-)





On Wed, 2004-03-31 at 11:54, Su Jiang wrote:
> AH...  I missed the message in Richard's Email...  Thank you, Fred, for
> your consideration.  This is not about you but you stand out for being
> afraid of hurting other people's feeling, what a noble person you are.
> : )
> 
> Yes, I can't agree with Richard's comments in his email.  What he said
> could be truth in some perspectives but not all.  For he made the
> changes happened in China sound negative, but ignored the fact what
> these changes mean to Chinese people.  For the stories happened in my
> family (same as millions of other Chinese families) about my
> grandparents, my parents and myself, we know far better than anyone else
> what these changes mean to us.  When Richard looked at peasant workers
> on construction site, waitresses at restaurant, or hookers on street,
> would he see hopes in their eyes?  These people are giving up anything
> for their survival, they don't care about their 'face', and their only
> asset is their hope about future.  They are tough may be because they
> have nothing to lose, for people who are most afraid of domino collapse
> is the ones have something to lose.  But I believe Chinese are not
> cowards.  We are not afraid of any crisis to happen on us, for we had
> survived worse.  The efforts we put to make changes about this country,
> maybe awkward and stupid in first world's people's eyes, but we build
> them on our strong hopes of what we want to be tomorrow and we are
> learning fast.  Richard, as a person who is not involved in this effort,
> does not have the right to be cynical about how we did it.  Your
> comments could be true, but your tone is totally wrong, which I don't
> consider friendly and constructive at all.
> 
> Again, I want to state that I respect the freedom that Richard gave his
> personnel comments on this mailing list, but I also have the freedom of
> not agreeing it.
> 
> Too much time spent on writing emails this morning, I must come back to
> my work now.  This is the last email I am to post on this issue.  Thanks
> for everyone who takes concern about people's feeling and make fair
> comments in this mailing list.  It’s cool. 
> 
> Amy
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Frederic
> Muller
> Sent: 2004年3月31日 10:27
> To: 'Beijing LUG general non-technical discussion list - Not
> publiclyposted'
> Subject: RE: [blug-general] Non - Linux - But good article
> 
> the point was not about the article but the comments in the email... I
> guess
> I was not clear enough.
> Besides this is a Linux group and not a Freedom of speech group. I
> remember
> not so long ago the issue being raised about sticking to Linux/Open
> source
> subject.... so why not anymore?
> 
> Fred
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Su Jiang
> Sent: Wednesday 31 March, 2004 10:16
> To: 'Beijing LUG general non-technical discussion list - Not
> publiclyposted'; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [blug-general] Non - Linux - But good article
> 
> 
> Hi, as a Chinese I would like to make a few comments too.
> 
> I like the article that Richard recommended.  I am really into my job
> and
> can't follow up with the discussion in this mailing list all the time.
> Often I skipped the articles that Bluggers recommended in their email
> but I
> happened to read this article and found it is very informative,
> interesting
> and intelligent.  Personally I would like to thank Richard to have taken
> efforts and time to pick this great article and shared with us, isn't
> sharing the true spirit of Linux?
> 
> I tend to think Fred has been a bit emotional on this issue.  Whatever
> we
> felt about the wordings or opinions of the article does not change the
> fact
> at all, right?  The truth is out there, hiding from the truth does not
> change it, neither denial.  The article may not telling the ultimate
> truth,
> but it is informative enough to expend the horizon of our knowledge
> about
> skyscrapers, isn't this a nice thing?  Why we geeks have to sit in the
> well
> of technology and stay away from other interesting knowledge?  The
> spirit of
> technology is not about learning and building but to explore with
> passion -
> it is a fun tour!
> 
> I understand Fred's concern about saving bluggers' time by keeping this
> mailing list specialized in technology issues only.  I have to say that
> this
> sound a bit too up-tight for me. I am an up-tight person at my job too,
> but
> I don't take this mailing list as serious as my job, and I don't think
> we
> need to.  I think this is a mailing list of freedom. Richard has the
> freedom
> of posing articles for people's interest, people who are not interested
> has
> the freedom of not reading it, and Fred has the freedom to claim that he
> was
> offended.  I don't agree to make any rules on this mailing list for that
> will break the spirit of freedom, which is also the spirit of Linux.
> 
> Another thing I can't agree, is the way of your debate.  Where is this
> leading?  The article is informative and useful but your debate is not.
> Sorry to say so but this is my freedom to express my feeling.  : )
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Amy
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Graham
> Brown
> Sent: 2004年3月27日 9:14
> To: [email protected]; Beijing LUG general non-technical discussion
> list -
> Not publicly posted
> Subject: RE: [blug-general] Non - Linux - But good article
> 
> Hello,
> 
> As an regular /. reader, of course I have not RTFA.
> 
> I also do not want to get into the merits of particular viewpoints, but
> I
> have been coming to China since 1983 and have lived here full time since
> 1997.
> 
> It would be a go idea to understand the practical realities. Any group
> not
> specifically approved including the BJLUG  is likely to be
> 
> illegal.
> Whatever private thought an individual might hold about general
> inadequacies in China, expressing them in a public space is not likely
> to
> be helpful.  In that sense this is a public space - it is recorded and
> capable of official scrutiny.
> 
> There is a big difference between ping results on a particular IP net
> and
> general political criticism, even if well founded.
> 
> Chinese are, and have every right to be, proud of their country, their
> government and their achievements.  The fact that they sometimes
> criticise
> it is their option - they are citizens.  It is no different from
> Australians criticising their own government.  We (Richard and I ) both
> know that Australians get really irritated if an  American or Brit does
> the
> same thing.  Our collective response is likely to be "If you don't like
> it
> here - leave".  We have Chinese friends and members and they are likely
> to
> have a similar response, even if their politeness hides it.
> 
> China is moving at 100mph - sometimes they get it wrong, or do not plan
> etc
> etc.  So what?  They are entitled to do it their way.  We are here for
> the
> ride, but we are guests in their country.  As a group, we should behave
> accordingly.  Privately, is another issue.
> 
> I suggest that we let it drop and move on to something less
> controversial
> like our "contact" list :-)
> 
> Graham Brown
> 
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