Re: Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu tablets
Kathinka <[email protected]> Wed, 6 Apr 2016 10:45:04 +1200
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.user-groups.linux.dunedin.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAMWvXDahjkwVoyG00CQwwJAPvEBKajNdVfBU5ME++MrmmMpDFg@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============6667947258226532186== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113dda9801d595052fc49bee --001a113dda9801d595052fc49bee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 6 April 2016 at 08:10, Thomi Richards <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > On 5 April 2016 at 18:12, Kathinka <[email protected]> wrote= : > >> That's an interesting approach to communication, Gene. Good on you for >> finding something that works for you. >> Personally I'd rather spend the rest of my life watching Days of our >> Lives than spending days of my life among people whose rules for discour= se >> put such a high value on being anodyne, but that's just me, and Tomas, a= nd >> Dutch and Germans in general. >> > > Believe me, I feel the same way about spending time with people who are > unceasingly rude, which is why I'm unsubscribing from this list. > > I've been here from the very beginning, and always stuck around because > I'm passionate about Linux and open source, and I wanted the opportunity = to > help people out. Over the last five years or so the tone of this list has > become more and more toxic. One by one I watched as several of my peers > left after receiving more abuse than they should have to. I always stuck > through it because I could always just ignore the list. > > I still want to help people out though. I'm still working at Canonical, > and I'm still happy to talk about how we build the distro, what I see on > the horizon (OMG! Exciting things!), and pretty much anything else. To > achieve this, I've created a new mailing list: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/dunlug-moderated > > Right now it's an open list (so, not really "moderated"), but I'll play > the role of fascist dictator and squash any messages that get out of line > (if anyone would like to join me in the admin seat, please email me and > I'll set it up). Is it ideal? clearly not. Is it better than enduring > repeated ass-hattery on a mailing list that's lost many of it's technical > contributors? absolutely. > > I apologise if this email makes the situation worse for those of you stil= l > left on the list. It's written from a place of emotion, rather than logic= , > and certainly isn't in an 'NVC' style. Right now though, I'm too upset to > care: DunLug as a community has failed. We've let ourselves get dragged > down into the gutter, to the point where it's not much more than a place = to > bitch and moan about things we don't like. I remember the glory days, whe= re > we were an open welcoming group, hosted technical talks, had a software a= nd > book library, met every few weeks, ran competitions, helped organise > LCA.... See how far we've fallen? And for what? > > If it turns out I'm the only one who feels this way I guess > dunlug-moderated will be a pretty quiet list. I encourage you all to join= - > let's turn dunlug back into something resembling it's former self. > > > Cheers, > -- > Thomi Richards > =E2=80=8BRe "=E2=80=8BI remember the glory days, where we were an open welc= oming group, hosted technical talks, had a software and book library, met every few weeks, ran competitions, helped organise LCA...." That fell apart when the DCC ruled that when a developer turned an adjoining commercial property into un-sound-proofed apartments, the responsibility for residents being affected by loud music was Arc's, not the developer's, not the residents. Arc tried getting musicians playing at less than the DCC Db level, but it didn't work out, the business which iirc was non-profitmaking, perhaps co-op, couldn't continue. Dunlug was left homeless, and leaderless. Two people had made all those talks, competitions, library and so on happen: Drew and Mr Goblin. Michael Beattie was a "growing lad" - well, his confidence and ability were growing noticeably and he was to the forefront when it came time for Dunedin to host that brilliant conference. I think Drew and Gobby tried to find alternative meeting places but no luck, and they were worn out, they had other things happening in their lives that needed more attention. They had put a hell of a lot into making Dunlug happen, it wasn't their fault it fell over. There was a long period with no meetings. Monica organised one or two in one of the university buildings. Then I "found" the Duke of Wellington where another group me.t every week in the basement room. Michael McCarrigan was agreeable. The reason for alternating Tuesdays and Wednesdays were because both evenings were ruled out for some people - but this way everyone could make it to meetings once a month! The "rule" was that meetings would be held there, mostly. There would be no membership, no fees, no "club" structure, and if anyone had something they'd like to share it was welcome, either at the Duke or wherever the interesting thing was. Talks had been a mixed blessing. Usually they were too advanced or too simplistic or on topics that large numbers weren't remotely interested in - because Linux is "only(!)" an OS, then there's the whole range of things people do, using it. The Duke closed, and there was a long long period before it reopened in the beautiful building on the corner of Rattray and Crawford Sts. Beautiful, but with appalling acoustics. And so, now, Filadelfios. One of the things I think has been unfortunate is that there has been no drive for new people. Sure, people who already use linux may hear about the group and the meetings, may feel that they would be welcome. But there has been no outreach for SO long! The main reason linux interests me is that it is such a good OS for non-geeks and I would love to see more outreach to the general public, such as the Installfest, and welcoming beginners to come to the group, bring their tablets - so much easier than carting the PC and monitor and keyboard, and printer if that was what one was having difficulties with! Some - many - of the old-timers don't attend now, they have other interests. Their computer use is sorted, Ubuntu has become the distro of choice of most people so there aren't those issues about what can be downloaded and how to install it on one of a basket of different distros. The computer / tablet /phone is now just an accepted tool like the microwave. And just as classes in cooking with microwave ovens dwindled and disappeared, so have many of the reasons for attending Dunlug - unless there are new people coming along with new problems, then new ideas and new ways of looking at old things. If anyone wants talks, demonstrations, competitions and so on, as far as I know the "rule" still applies: go ahead and organise it! Please :-) You (singular or plural) personally, it's nobody else's job. Kathinka. --001a113dda9801d595052fc49bee Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,= serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 6= April 2016 at 08:10, Thomi Richards <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailt= o:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote= :<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo= rder-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:so= lid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Hi,</div>= <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><span><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 5 April = 2016 at 18:12, Kathinka <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:kathinka.du= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&g= t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0= px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);borde= r-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-family:georgia,seri= f">That's an interesting approach to communication, Gene.=C2=A0 Good on= you for finding something that works for you.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"fon= t-family:georgia,serif">Personally I'd rather spend the rest of my life= watching Days of our Lives than spending days of my life among people whos= e rules for discourse put such a high value on being anodyne, but that'= s just me, and Tomas, and Dutch and Germans in general. =C2=A0</div><span><= font color=3D"#888888"><div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"></div></fon= t></span></blockquote></div><br></span>Believe me, I feel the same way abou= t spending time with people who are unceasingly rude, which is why I'm = unsubscribing from this list.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></d= iv><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I've been here from the very beginning, a= nd always stuck around because I'm passionate about Linux and open sour= ce, and I wanted the opportunity to help people out. Over the last five yea= rs or so the tone of this list has become more and more toxic. One by one I= watched as several of my peers left after receiving more abuse than they s= hould have to. I always stuck through it because I could always just ignore= the list.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gm= ail_extra">I still want to help people out though. I'm still working at= Canonical, and I'm still happy to talk about how we build the distro, = what I see on the horizon (OMG! Exciting things!), and pretty much anything= else. To achieve this, I've created a new mailing list:=C2=A0</div><di= v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><a href=3D"htt= ps://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/dunlug-moderated" target=3D"_blank">ht= tps://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/dunlug-moderated</a><br></div><div cl= ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Right now it's= an open list (so, not really "moderated"), but I'll play the= role of fascist dictator and squash any messages that get out of line (if = anyone would like to join me in the admin seat, please email me and I'l= l set it up). Is it ideal? clearly not. Is it better than enduring repeated= ass-hattery on a mailing list that's lost many of it's technical c= ontributors? absolutely.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all">= <div>I apologise if this email makes the situation worse for those of you s= till left on the list. It's written from a place of emotion, rather tha= n logic, and certainly isn't in an 'NVC' style. Right now thoug= h, I'm too upset to care: DunLug as a community has failed. We've l= et ourselves get dragged down into the gutter, to the point where it's = not much more than a place to bitch and moan about things we don't like= . I remember the glory days, where we were an open welcoming group, hosted = technical talks, had a software and book library, met every few weeks, ran = competitions, helped organise LCA.... See how far we've fallen? And for= what?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>If it turns out I'm the only one = who feels this way I guess dunlug-moderated will be a pretty quiet list. I = encourage you all to join - let's turn dunlug back into something resem= bling it's former self.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,= </div><span><font color=3D"#888888">-- <br><div>Thomi Richards<br></div> </font></span></div></div> </blockquote></div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail= _default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">=E2=80=8BRe "=E2=80=8BI = remember the glory days, where we were an open welcoming group, hosted tech= nical talks, had a software and book library, met every few weeks, ran comp= etitions, helped organise LCA...."</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s= tyle=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">That fell apart when the DCC ruled that = when a developer turned an adjoining =C2=A0commercial property into un-soun= d-proofed apartments, the responsibility for residents being affected by lo= ud music was Arc's, not the developer's, not the residents.</div><d= iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Arc tried ge= tting musicians playing at less than the DCC Db level, but it didn't wo= rk out, the business which iirc was non-profitmaking, perhaps co-op, couldn= 't continue.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:geo= rgia,serif">Dunlug was left homeless, and leaderless.=C2=A0 Two people had = made all those talks, competitions, library and so on happen: Drew and Mr G= oblin.=C2=A0 Michael Beattie =C2=A0was a "growing lad" - well, hi= s confidence and ability were growing noticeably and he was to the forefron= t when it came time for Dunedin to host that brilliant conference.</div><di= v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">=C2=A0I think= Drew and Gobby tried to find alternative meeting places but no luck, and t= hey were worn out, they had other things happening in their lives that need= ed more attention.=C2=A0 They had put a hell of a lot into making Dunlug ha= ppen, it wasn't their fault it fell over.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa= ult" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa= ult" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">There was a long period with no me= etings.=C2=A0 Monica organised one or two in one of the university building= s.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><b= r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Th= en I "found" the Duke of Wellington where another group me.t ever= y week in the basement room.=C2=A0 Michael=C2=A0McCarrigan was agreeable.= =C2=A0 The reason for alternating Tuesdays and Wednesdays were because both= evenings were ruled out for some people - but this way everyone could make= it to meetings once a month!</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo= nt-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo= nt-family:georgia,serif">The "rule" was that meetings would be he= ld there, mostly.=C2=A0 There would be no membership, no fees, no "clu= b" structure, and if anyone had something they'd like to share it = was welcome, either at the Duke or wherever the interesting thing was. =C2= =A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><= br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">T= alks had been a mixed blessing.=C2=A0 Usually they were too advanced or too= simplistic or on topics that large numbers weren't remotely interested= in - because Linux is "only(!)" an OS, then there's the whol= e range of things people do, using it.<br></div><br></div><div class=3D"gma= il_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">= The Duke closed, and there was a long long period before it reopened in the= beautiful building on=C2=A0the corner of Rattray and Crawford Sts.=C2=A0 B= eautiful, but with appalling acoustics.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s= tyle=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s= tyle=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">And so, now, Filadelfios. =C2=A0</div><d= iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><d= iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">One of the t= hings I think has been unfortunate is that there has been no drive for new = people.=C2=A0 Sure, people who already use linux may hear about the group a= nd the meetings, may feel that they would be welcome. But there has been no= outreach for SO long!=C2=A0 The main reason linux interests me is that it = is such a good OS for non-geeks and I would love to see more outreach to th= e general public, such as the Installfest, and welcoming beginners to come = to the group, bring their tablets - so much easier than carting the PC and = monitor and keyboard, and printer if that was what one was having difficult= ies with!</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,se= rif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,se= rif">Some - many - of the old-timers don't attend now, they have other = interests.=C2=A0 Their computer use is sorted, Ubuntu has become the distro= of choice of most people so there aren't those issues about what can b= e downloaded and how to install it on one of a basket of different distros.= =C2=A0 The computer / tablet /phone is now just an accepted tool like the m= icrowave.=C2=A0 And just as classes in cooking with microwave ovens dwindle= d and disappeared, so have many of the reasons for attending Dunlug - unles= s there are new people coming along with new problems, then new ideas and n= ew ways of looking at old things.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style= =3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style= =3D"font-family:georgia,serif">If anyone wants talks, demonstrations, compe= titions and so on, as far as I know the "rule" still applies: go = ahead and organise it! =C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo= nt-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo= nt-family:georgia,serif">Please :-)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style= =3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style= =3D"font-family:georgia,serif">You (singular or plural) personally, it'= s nobody else's job.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:georgia,serif">Kathinka.</div><br></div></div> --001a113dda9801d595052fc49bee-- --===============6667947258226532186== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KRHVuTFVHIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdApEdW5MVUdAbGlzdHMuZXRoZXJuYWwub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5ldGhlcm5h bC5vcmcvbGlzdGluZm8vZHVubHVnCkR1bkxVRyBXaWtpIC0gaHR0cDovL2R1bmx1Zy5rYWxsaXN0 aS5uZXQubnov --===============6667947258226532186==--