Re: [Menai-LUG] Meeting/Seminar?

OK - a bit of a summary reply.  There seems to be enough interest to do som=
e=20
more thinking on this, and at that point I will approach the other people I=
=20
have on my mental list who haven't expressed a view yet ....

On Thursday 08 February 2007 12:49, Richard Smedley wrote:
> Please don't neglect the third sector - social enterprises
> are far more dynamic and innovative, as well as being
> generally morally superior ;-P

Yes, good point, and I have some contacts there too.

> We'd be happy to attend and present if I am available :-)

Great - you were one of the unfortunates on my arm-twisting list :-)

> I'm happy to help you develop the schedule/scope/content.

Terrific.

> Given the sponsored venue, the only real challenge is the
> catering - all such events stand or fall on the quality of
> the victuals ;^)

I think they can sort out the catering too, so that shouldn't be a problem.

On Thursday 08 February 2007 12:48, Phil Thane wrote:
> It's do-able, but I for one am crap at organising things. Found that out
> years ago at college when I was chair of the worst performing Rag Week in
> living memory.

Noted!

> As most NWLUGgers know I'm the Beginners' Linux guy for Micro Mart, and
> asker of many many very basic questions, if the event attracts beginners
> I'm happy to talk to them and demo (English only, or maybe French but no
> Welsh) but if you want advanced networking stuff for businesses leave me
> out.

Great - you were another on my list.  Something low-curve for beginners wou=
ld=20
be a good thing.

> (BTW still haven't sorted my Firewall...)

Pshaw!  Live dangerously - forget firewalls!

On Thursday 08 February 2007 15:08, John Fraser Williams wrote:
> I am staggered at the lack of promotion to the general public (including
> SMEs) of Open Source solutions. How many people know about Open
> Office/Agored?

That's because it takes time and long chipping away at established notions=
=20
which well-funded players have spent millions in marketing money to promote=
=20
(so that you get people, for instance, associating a PC with Microsoft=20
Windows, and unable to imagine a PC without said software).  As Linus=20
Torvalds said, considering using another OS is like doing a brain transplan=
t=20
on yourself.

Regarding Agored, I have less sympathy - they got a tidy sum from the EU, a=
nd=20
if they're not using some of it for marketing that's their lookout.

> The public sector in Wales spends a fortune on site licences for
> proprietary software. How much more efficient it would be to use open
> source resources and spent that money on developing a local skills base to
> support users bilingually.

Indeed.  =A310m was spent renting Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office fo=
r 3=20
years in the NHS in Wales, when the vast majority of users could have used =
a=20
=46LOSS solution to get what they needed done (I would hazard a guess that=
=20
email, browsing, word-processing and presentations are the only 4 apps used=
=20
by 90% of the admin staff in the NHS).

> I also feel that there is a need to assist the 'digitally dispossessed' in
> this part of the world. What about recycling redundant hardware, installi=
ng
> Linux distros, and then donating/supplying at cost to community groups,
> schools, etc? Some follow-up support would be needed, but there must be
> some public funding which could help.

Good point.

> At a practical level, I would suggest that a demo of all the common office
> applications (as many as possible bilingual!) would show people the
> possibilities. I would also take a redundant system, and over the course =
of
> the day, install and configure all the necessary Open Source software to
> run a small enterprise.

Excellent ideas.  A sort of "installfest on steroids".

On Thursday 08 February 2007 18:39, Oli wrote:
> Why Anglesey though?  The major population of North Wales is not there
> - I would have thought holding the event in Llandudno or Colwyn Bay
> would ensure more people would be able to gain from such an event.

Hehe!  Because that's where this building is :-), and the Council is fairly=
=20
open-minded about IT stuff.  Plus they are already funding some other usefu=
l=20
things like Bloc - they might see this as fitting into that, and be=20
accommodating on rent, etc.  It's also easier for me to put more time into=
=20
organising, if it's closer.  Finally, it's not so much volume (ie numbers o=
f=20
people) we need, as decision-makers and opinion-formers.

> I will soon be taking part in a sitting in a steering committee for a
> week long event for Flintshire, and certainly think there is room for
> holding such an event here - although obviously details will need to
> be worked out.

There's certainly no reason why a couple of events like this couldn't be he=
ld=20
in North Wales - we're big enough, and the technology is now mature enough,=
=20
IMHO.  Plus there's a psychological opportunity, in that over the next few=
=20
months people are going to be thinking "Vista - should I or should I not?",=
=20
so they may be more open to hearing about angles they might not have=20
considered before.  If I can help at your event, let me know (I couldn't do=
=20
much organising, though - it's too far away).

> I do think that to make it successful there needs to be an open source
> event rather than a Linux event.  For a non enthusiast, going down the
> Linux migration route is too big a step in one go - and if that is the
> only option - they will stick with Windows - and the event will be a
> wasted opportunity.

I think that can be covered by the approach I suggested earlier - "you can =
run=20
some of this stuff (eg .....) on Microsoft Windows and Apple Mac machines.=
=20
but then you lose the benefits of no vendor lock-in, a better security mode=
l,=20
etc etc.  I'm not we should be aiming at "non-enthusiasts" - instead, try t=
o=20
present people with sound business reasons (data freedom, no licenses,=20
versatility) why they should become enthusiasts.

I also think that the "FLOSS on Windows" angle is chickening out a bit.  It=
's=20
as if you're saying "break free, but don't leave the front garden".  I've=20
never seen a Microsoft Windows expo where the selling point was billed as=20
showing you Microsoft Windows software that you could run on an Apple Mac,=
=20
for instance - I don't see why Linux should be expected to present these=20
things in a way no other OS does.

On Thursday 08 February 2007 20:15, Tony Wilkins wrote:
> Why not Wrexham? At the end of the day Kevin has identified a sponsored
> venue and a great idea. If it takes off why not do one in a central and
> eastern North Wales town.

Exactly - in fact, once you've run one, it would probably be easier to run =
one=20
somewhere else, since you would have a "template".

> Oli, you work with ITWales? Come on there must be someone that can be
> identified. What about a small business that could be cajoled in trying
> out open source / linux based systems for a couple of months and report
> back at the seminar.

Yes, ITWales *should* have some data on this field - if not, we obviously=20
haven't been making enough of a splash!  In fact, an event like this might=
=20
bring some people/companies out of the woodwork, which would help ITWales f=
or=20
the future.

The idea of a "testbed" is a great one, but would need to be carefully=20
planned.  I considered this for schools a couple of years ago, and conclude=
d=20
that you would need to be able to do more than say "here's a box with Linux=
=20
on it, off you go".  I wouldn't want "handholding" to become "support", so=
=20
the testbed would need some fairly clear criteria (eg not necessarily tryin=
g=20
to get a Linux box to replace a box running a 15-year old DOS app on a flak=
y=20
network that has lots of other odd things wrong with it - that way lies=20
madness!). =20

> Count me in. If I can help I will.

Cool!  Thanks!

> Sounds like we need a meet to take this further / discuss what we want and
> can do.

Yes, good idea.  We'll do a bit more on the list first, I think, to get som=
e=20
sort of list of points, and then maybe set up a meeting in a couple of week=
s? =20

=2D-=20
Pob hwyl / Best wishes

Kevin Donnelly

www.kyfieithu.co.uk - KDE yn Gymraeg
www.eurfa.org.uk - Geiriadur rhydd i'r Gymraeg
www.rhedadur.org.uk - Rhedeg berfau Cymraeg
www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD