Re: [activities] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] Trial of new venue for June meeting
Charles Willock <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.user-groups.slug.festivities |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
Hi Martin / All,
Aplogies in advance for the length (I plead Pascal's
'shorter' defence).
> Just wondering what exactly are the risks as you perceive?
> Apart from having to be reasonably well-behaved and possibly
> having to bow to specific security requirements, there hasn't
> been any downsides in using a corporate venue. Certainly I am
> not aware of any specifically unmentionable topics or the like
> that you might have feared.
I don't have a specific urgent concern wrt Google - much more
systemic ones. Let me clarify a bit further.
I'm old enough to remember the big push for training in
"Environmental Science" in the late 70's / early 80s. It
appeared at the time that we (Australia and "The World") had
finally realised that the environment was important and that
we had the basic sciences - Physics, Biology, Chemistry, Applied
Maths, the emerging disciplines of Satellite Remote Sensing,
Image Processing, Geographic Information Systems, Simulation,
and increasingly, sufficiently powerful small computers and
associated capability by which it was possible to actually do
something about the state of the environment.
So what happened?
In retrospect, it should have been obvious ... along with a
vigorous attacks against "environmentalists", big corporations
(eg big mining, big energy) started to:
o. talk about their environmental credentials (and they
still do). Hence the growth of the environmental spin
industry ... lets call it "sustainable development" ...
and the "balance" between making money on the one hand
and reducing the risk to the environment on the other.
The message was - if we don't make big profits we cannot
save the environment.
o. (later ...) sponsor "independent" researchers and when
things got tough for Universities, to fund University
research projects. (University research funding is
facing the utterly predicted and predictable compromise
as a result. Anyone for carbon sequestration?)
Today we know a whole lot more about how that manipulation
works (eg from among other things the whistleblowing of Jeffrey
Wigand (refer wiki) and the archives of the Tobacco Industry
that were legally opened as a result. No doubt you'd also be
familiar with Sourcewatch, sockpuppets, greenwashing,
astroturfing, web shopfronting, pseudo-independent think-tanks
and the list goes on.
But back to what happened to our bright young graduate with a
degree in the new discipline of "Environmental Science".
Well, they had to get a job. And that was kinda tough at the
time. Oh, but there were a few jobs going ... working as an
Environmental Scientist for a big company. Use it or lose it,
but also toe the line or be without a job. A few made it into
academia but that was difficult without at least a few
publications and a few years of experience in one of the basic
sciences. They also soon discovered that there was a lot more
money to be made - and they could have a much more comfortable
life - by consulting "for the man" ... some famous names come
to mind. "Environmental Science" had within a few short years
largely been nobbled. Nearly 30 years on we still aren't
engaging effectively with the environment and "the economy",
is still the fundamentally flawed - but accepted model.
Is that unique - well no, not really - just that we don't
normally think much about any of those systems ... too
far below the radar and not immediately urgent.
Other examples include the tobacco industry. Currently, the
alcohol industry are in the same battle (they might lose, but
then again they might not). The junk food merchants are still
doing their best to keep up their advertising to kids and now
offer side salads ... "Marrrm it is healthy - they have salad
- yes but - I wanna big Mac". Sponsoring school curriculum
maths / sports facilities through little athletics etc aren't
being done out of the goodness of their hearts ... Then
of course there is the Genetically Modified Food propagandists
(courtesy of a split from the original and best of the rogue
chemical industry - Monsanto of PCB fame) and in spite of the
CSIRO peas fiasco, the Monarch butterfly and much else, it
looks as if they might "win". No doubt too that the Uranium
and the Coal lobbies are whooping it up with the recession -
less money and support for the protestors, more government
money for them.
> (And the reality is that a large proportion of SLUG attendees
> in the course of their use of Linux are "working for the man"
> in some way or another, so many of us beholden to someone else
> no matter what the venue)
Over the past 8-10 years I have spent a lot of time looking at
linguistics - somewhat computational but mainly semantics and,
on the side, came across some early work by Gramsci on cultural
hegemony which appears to explain the dynamics of the processes
involved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci
The other important aspect, which arises from discourse analysis,
is the understanding that social changes and decisions are made
small steps at a time - by everyday individuals in everyday
conversations ... but the language used in those conversation
are "restricted codes" in the Bersteinian sense
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Bernstein
By those means (Gramsci and Berstein) opinions and values can
be substantially influenced as to whether they can feel they
are able to question big corporations - or, if all the others
are happy accepting their hospitality, maybe it wouldn't be
appropriate today. To mangle a metaphor, perhaps we are being
lulled to sleep as the water becomes gradually warmer into
outcomes not in our interest.
So, to computing ... perhaps we should look at privacy?
At present there seems to be very little interest at all in
possible abuse. More significantly, most of it is concealed
"by virtue of its virtuality" - most people don't know what is
being tracked. Most people don't even notice RFID readers in
the checkout lanes. They willingly put all sorts of private
information in email or on web pages.
Almost certainly however, they are being tracked - and one must
wonder if the biggest players are amongst the biggest trackers.
What could one do with all that tracked info? (Is that all? :-)
Could we run a completely frank expose-all talk from someone
inside one of those organisations? Or would our own sense of
self censorship be too great to stop it before it went ahead?
Or would a person with such a story be too overwhelmed to do
it in a recession? What support would they get from their
fellow group members? Or is it (much) more comfortable being
paid by the man. Besides one "may not really know all the
details ..."
> That being said, I imagine having an offer for some good-sized,
> accommodating and easily accessible venue with the right facilities
> from a public institution would probably be welcome.
Is the issue important? ... I'd suggest that it is. Is the
issue urgent? ... probably not. Would it be welcome if some
public institution offered a suitable venue ... yes.
Anyway, good to know we have someone of your calibre on the case.
Cheers,
Charlesw
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 01:55:20PM +1000, Martin Visser wrote:
> Charles,
>
> Just wondering what exactly are the risks as you perceive? Apart from
> having to be reasonably well-behaved and possibly having to bow to
> specific security requirements, there hasn't been any downsides in
> using a corporate venue. Certainly I am not aware of any specifically
> unmentionable topics or the like that you might have feared.
>
> (And the reality is that a large proportion of SLUG attendees in the
> course of their use of Linux are "working for the man" in some way or
> another, so many of us beholden to someone else no matter what the
> venue)
>
> That being said, I imagine having an offer for some good-sized,
> accommodating and easily accessible venue with the right facilities
> from a public institution would probably be welcome.
>
> Regards, Martin
>
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Charles Willock
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Sridhar,
> >
> > I'm sure you have some very good people looking into these things
> > so I won't go on and on - but things/people do change at Universities
> > - and will do from Budget night in particular so maybe UTS and/or
> > Sydney U might be worth a (re)visit. I'm not religious but selling
> > one's soul for a bowl of pottage just seems fundamentally wrong.
> >
> >
> > Avagoodone,
> > Charlesw
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 11:51:33PM +1000, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote:
> >> Hi Charles,
> >>
> >> [CCing to the Activities list to keep the discussion open]
> >>
> >> We do share your concerns, which is one reason why we have not made a
> >> formal move as of yet. The fact of the matter, however, is that our
> >> meetings have been held at corporate venues since we were
> >> unceremoniously booted from UTS in 2006. We then moved to IBM, and
> >> then to our current location at Atlassian.
> >>
> >> So at the end of the day, the change on that front is effectively nil.
> >> Our current choices are between the current corporate entity
> >> (Atlassian) and one possible new one (Google). Google potentially
> >> offer some advantages over the incumbent, which is why we are
> >> trialling their facilities next month. If it doesn't fare well, we can
> >> revert to Atlassian.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Sridhar
> >>
> >>
> >> 2009/5/10 Charles Willock <[email protected]>:
> >> >
> >> > Hello Sridhar,
> >> >
> >> > Great to hear that the meetings are still going ...
> >> >
> >> > Just wondering why we are choosing to become beholden to large
> >> > corporates (regardless of type) ... the risks involved in that
> >> > must have been obvious from biblical times ...
> >> >
> >> > HtH,
> >> > Charlesw
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 02:14:56PM +1000, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote:
> >> >> Hello SLUG participants,
> >> >>
> >> >> Last month, we proposed trialling a new venue for our monthly
> >> >> meetings[0]. In the interests of providing ample notice, we have
> >> >> decided to defer this by one month, to the meeting on 26 June.
> >> >>
> >> >> The new venue is Google's new offices in Pyrmont[1], just across the
> >> >> road from Star City Casino. We have provided a summary of
> >> >> transportation options[2].
> >> >>
> >> >> We shall use this trial to determine the location of future meetings.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Sridhar Dhanapalan
> >> >> SLUG President
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> [0] http://lists.slug.org.au/archives/activities/2009/04/msg00012.html
> >> >> [1] http://tinyurl.com/google-sydney
> >> >> [2] http://lists.slug.org.au/archives/activities/2009/05/msg00003.html
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Bring choice back to your computer.
> >> >> http://www.linux.org.au/linux
> >> >> --
> >> >> SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Announcements List - http://slug.org.au
> >> >> More info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/announce
> >> >
> >> > "Creativity and innovation are measured not by what is done,
> >> > but by what could have been done ... but wasn't"
> >> >
> >> > Disclaimer: http://www.eng.unsw.edu.au/emaildis.htm
> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > Charles Willock [email protected]
> >> > c/- School of Computer Science and Engineering
> >> > University of New South Wales,
> >> > New South Wales Australia 2052 http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~charlesw
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bring choice back to your computer.
> >> http://www.linux.org.au/linux
> >
> > "Creativity and innovation are measured not by what is done,
> > but by what could have been done ... but wasn't"
> >
> > Disclaimer: http://www.eng.unsw.edu.au/emaildis.htm
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Charles Willock [email protected]
> > c/- School of Computer Science and Engineering
> > University of New South Wales,
> > New South Wales Australia 2052 http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~charlesw
> >
> > --
> > SLUG Activities
> > Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
> >
"Creativity and innovation are measured not by what is done,
but by what could have been done ... but wasn't"
Disclaimer: http://www.eng.unsw.edu.au/emaildis.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Willock [email protected]
c/- School of Computer Science and Engineering
University of New South Wales,
New South Wales Australia 2052 http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~charlesw
--
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