Re: Juglist Digest, Vol 42, Issue 3

"Bautista, Marvin" <Marvin.Bautista-OBIVZgRttir1WzWA0+u3bgC/[email protected]>
Newsgroups gmane.org.user-groups.trijug.juglist
Message-ID <[email protected]> 
if( obtainedJobDueToCertification() ||
appliedWhatYouLearnedInCertificationToYourJavaCodingGoingForward() ) {
	log.info("Money and time well spent.");
} else {
	log.error("Don't waste your money specially during recession.");
} 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Juglist Digest, Vol 42, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

   1. becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer? (Wayne Unruh)
   2. Re: becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer?
      (Iskander Absalyamov)
   3. Re: becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer? (Don Brady)
   4. Re: becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer? (Michael Kimsal)
   5. Re: becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer? (Grant Ingersoll)
   6. Re: becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer? (Michael Kimsal)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:53:20 -0400
From: Wayne Unruh <[email protected]>
Subject: [Juglist] becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer?
To: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"


Hi All,

I am thinking about investing some time and money into becoming a Sun
Certified Java Programmer (SCJP) and I have some questions.

Has anybody in the group taken the SCJP exam? 
If you have one of Sun Certification's, did it add value to your resume
and salary?

Can anybody recommend any good study guides for the SCJP exam?  People
online seem to recommend "SCJP Sun Certified Programmer for Java 6 Study
Guide (Exam 310-065)" 
by Katherine Sierra and Bert Bates.

Thanks in advance for your input.


Wayne Unruh

(919) 802-1244
[email protected]


_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to
meet.
http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:53:41 -0400
From: "Iskander Absalyamov" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Juglist] becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer?
To: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="windows-1251"

This certification helped me to get a job because the hiring person was
searching resumes by the respective key words. I prepared using only the
mentioned guide.

Iskander
http://www.linkedin.com/in/absalyamov


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Wayne Unruh
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Juglist] becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer?

Hi All,

I am thinking about investing some time and money into becoming a Sun
Certified Java Programmer (SCJP) and I have some questions.

Has anybody in the group taken the SCJP exam? 
If you have one of Sun Certification's, did it add value to your resume
and
salary?

Can anybody recommend any good study guides for the SCJP exam?? People
online seem to recommend "SCJP Sun Certified Programmer for Java 6 Study
Guide (Exam 310-065)" 
by Katherine Sierra and Bert Bates.

Thanks in advance for your input.


Wayne Unruh




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:09:06 -0400
From: Don Brady <dbrady-d0/1ywxyuRNWk0Htik3J/[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Juglist] becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer?
To: [email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Some people pooh-pooh it as a net negative, and probably the super-gurus

do not need it,  but I like having it and seeing it too.

(1) It is a good refresher at least.

(2) It gives you practice for employer's pre-hiring quizzes (or you can 
refuse to take them if you have lots of nerve, on the grounds that you 
are already certified).

(3) In interviewing candidates, I have found that the majority do not 
have even a basic understanding of Java.   Anything even potentially 
positive on your resume will help you get an interview, and 
certification shows some initiative at least.

Don




Wayne Unruh wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am thinking about investing some time and money into becoming a Sun 
> Certified Java Programmer (SCJP) and I have some questions.
> 
> Has anybody in the group taken the SCJP exam?
> If you have one of Sun Certification's, did it add value to your
resume 
> and salary?
> 
> Can anybody recommend any good study guides for the SCJP exam?  People

> online seem to recommend "SCJP Sun Certified Programmer for Java 6
Study 
> Guide (Exam 310-065)"
> by Katherine Sierra and Bert Bates.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your input.
> 
> 
> Wayne Unruh
> 
> (919) 802-1244
> [email protected]
> 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups
to 
> meet. Check it out. 
> <http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009>
> 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Juglist mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:17:38 -0400
From: Michael Kimsal <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Juglist] becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer?
To: [email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I would second Don's comments and suggest this is probably true for most
cert programs as a whole.  I teach a PHP certification course, and much
of
the same reasoning applies there as to why people take it (and why some
people refuse to get certified).  I was a bit more cynical about it in
general years ago.  However, having taken the cert course, and knowing
what
sorts of questions are asked, I now see the practical value it can
provide
potential employers.  It's not something that would get you hired, but
one
more piece that would likely be a foot in the door.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Don Brady <dbrady-d0/1ywxyuRNWk0Htik3J/[email protected]> wrote:

> Some people pooh-pooh it as a net negative, and probably the
super-gurus do
> not need it,  but I like having it and seeing it too.
>
> (1) It is a good refresher at least.
>
> (2) It gives you practice for employer's pre-hiring quizzes (or you
can
> refuse to take them if you have lots of nerve, on the grounds that you
are
> already certified).
>
> (3) In interviewing candidates, I have found that the majority do not
have
> even a basic understanding of Java.   Anything even potentially
positive on
> your resume will help you get an interview, and certification shows
some
> initiative at least.
>
> Don
>
>
>


-- 
Michael Kimsal
http://jsmag.com
http://groovymag.com
919.827.4724 - Skype
919.455.8488 - Cell
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:11:21 -0400
From: Grant Ingersoll <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Juglist] becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer?
Cc: Triangle Java Users <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed";
	DelSp="yes"

In the end, I guess I would ask myself how much time and money it's  
going to take and what the opportunity cost of that is in comparison  
to other ways you might strengthen yourself.   For instance, suppose  
it takes you 6 months to study for it (I don't know, I haven't taken  
it).  In that time, you could join an open source project you like and  
start making significant contributions that show you know how to code/ 
communicate in real life.  If you pick a good project and prove  
yourself, in all likelihood, people will start asking you to work for  
them, instead of you asking them if they have work.

I personally would rather see a candidate with a solid track record of  
contributions to an open source project that is used in production by  
a decent number of people, but that may be beside the point.  Why?   
This allows me to quickly establish:
1. How well they communicate
2. They can work distributed/independently, but still interact with  
others
3.  If they are self starters
4. If they really know how to code or just live off of their co-workers

I think the other factor for certification is how much work experience  
you have and how up to speed you are on a good breadth/depth of  
technologies.  If you are relatively inexperienced, the cert. probably  
can't hurt and might give you a little extra edge.  If you've been  
around the block and have proven yourself in the past, it probably  
won't matter as much.

Just my two cents,
Grant

On Mar 12, 2009, at 5:53 PM, Wayne Unruh wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I am thinking about investing some time and money into becoming a  
> Sun Certified Java Programmer (SCJP) and I have some questions.
>
> Has anybody in the group taken the SCJP exam?
> If you have one of Sun Certification's, did it add value to your  
> resume and salary?
>
> Can anybody recommend any good study guides for the SCJP exam?   
> People online seem to recommend "SCJP Sun Certified Programmer for  
> Java 6 Study Guide (Exam 310-065)"
> by Katherine Sierra and Bert Bates.
>
> Thanks in advance for your input.
>
>
> Wayne Unruh
>
> (919) 802-1244
> [email protected]
>
>
> Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups  
> to meet. Check it out. _______________________________________________
> Juglist mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org

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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:19:02 -0400
From: Michael Kimsal <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Juglist] becoming a Sun Certified Java Programmer?
To: Grant Ingersoll <[email protected]>
Cc: Triangle Java Users <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Grant:

I'd actually hit 'send' before I got to that part.  Certainly having a
lot
of demonstrable experience in an open source project is a great way to
demonstrate a number of skills - both social and technical.  Even that
is
still one of those things that is likely a 'foot in the door' sort of
qualifier for many employers, but certainly still great to have.

Unfortunately, not everyone is in a position to contribute to OS
projects,
either due to time constraints, or perhaps NDAs or other situations they
find themselves in.  Certification is often a good fallback position to
have
to be able to demonstrate knowledge and a certain degree of skill.

Participation in various communities is a great way to show skills, but
not
everyone can always participate.  In those cases, certification is a
good
alternative to have.  Just IMO, but it's been echoed by many teammates
and
hiring people I've talked to over the years.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Grant Ingersoll
<[email protected]>wrote:

> In the end, I guess I would ask myself how much time and money it's
going
> to take and what the opportunity cost of that is in comparison to
other ways
> you might strengthen yourself.   For instance, suppose it takes you 6
months
> to study for it (I don't know, I haven't taken it).  In that time, you
could
> join an open source project you like and start making significant
> contributions that show you know how to code/communicate in real life.
If
> you pick a good project and prove yourself, in all likelihood, people
will
> start asking you to work for them, instead of you asking them if they
have
> work.
>
> I personally would rather see a candidate with a solid track record of
> contributions to an open source project that is used in production by
a
> decent number of people, but that may be beside the point.  Why?  This
> allows me to quickly establish:1. How well they communicate
> 2. They can work distributed/independently, but still interact with
others
> 3.  If they are self starters
> 4. If they really know how to code or just live off of their
co-workers
>
> I think the other factor for certification is how much work experience
you
> have and how up to speed you are on a good breadth/depth of
technologies.
>  If you are relatively inexperienced, the cert. probably can't hurt
and
> might give you a little extra edge.  If you've been around the block
and
> have proven yourself in the past, it probably won't matter as much.
>
> Just my two cents,
> Grant
>
>
-- 
Michael Kimsal
http://jsmag.com
http://groovymag.com
919.827.4724 - Skype
919.455.8488 - Cell
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End of Juglist Digest, Vol 42, Issue 3
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