Re: [VM] Natasha and Alan

"Goldeen Bell" <[email protected]> Thu, 04 Nov 2004 01:23:14 -0500
Newsgroups gmane.comp.web.xforms,gmane.comp.web.voice,gmane.comp.web.css.general,gmane.comp.web.html.general,gmane.org.w3c.accessibility.agents,gmane.org.w3c.accessibility.guidelines,gmane.org.w3c.accessibility.general
Message-ID <[email protected]>
Thomas<BR><BR>I am something of a stand-in for the experience of the medica=
l community.&nbsp; There are several relevant&nbsp; groups to point at alth=
ough I am not in a position to write a definitive paper on any of them:<BR>=
<BR>SNOMED-CT (and its ancestor in the UK Clinical Terms) - the officially =
mandated terminology<BR><BR>HL7 (the main healthcare information standards =
body) Vocabulary group which manages a variety of terminologies.<BR><BR>The=
 National Cancer Institute's Metathesaurus<BR><BR>The Unified Medical Langu=
age system<BR><BR>The Gene Ontology and the Open Bio Ontologies (OBO) group=
 more generally.<BR><BR>In all these cases the interest would be in the pri=
nciples, issues and use cases encountered, e.g. tracking versions, handling=
 of retired terms, handling of splitting and joining terms, when a change o=
f a label indicates a new concept, etc.&nbsp; None of them use URIs as iden=
tifiers.&nbsp; HL7 uses OIDs, SNOMED has its own system of 64 bit - or perh=
aps now more - identifiers partitioned up so as to allow a name-space like =
construct.&nbsp; All make a sharp separation between 'concept' and 'term', =
and use separate 'nonsemantic' identifiers for each.&nbsp;&nbsp; All use "p=
re-web" technology.<BR><BR>The other work in the medical area which may hav=
e an impact in this area is Mayo Clinic's work on the terminology services =
engine, CTS.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The best thing on that is to contact Harold =
Solbrig directly whom I am copying on this email.<BR><BR>SNOMED had&nbsp; s=
everal papers on their updating procedure that used to be on their web site=
 during development, but they seem to have disappeared.&nbsp; I can see if =
I can retrieve any of them, although they may be considered commercial conf=
idential.<BR><BR>The strongest line in the medical community - because grou=
p after group has had to rediscover it or at least rediscover that the comm=
unity was right - is to separate the "concept" and "term" and to use "meani=
ngless" identifiers of some sort which are not subject to problems of argum=
ents over spelling, differences in usage between communities, etc.&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Also never, ever, to re-use an identifier.<BR><BR>I am not quite sure h=
ow this translates into the Semantic Web world.&nbsp; The rdf:label propert=
y is a relatively weak mechanism, e.g. as far as I know&nbsp; it is just st=
ring valued and there is no inverse, so that the notion of going from label=
 to concept isn't really supported, nor any notion of labels in their own r=
ight.&nbsp; There is also no obvious notion of "preferred term" - something=
 the medical community has found essential as soon as you start to allow mu=
ltiple labels.&nbsp; Potentially the language field could be used for this =
purpose, but this really needs testing against the use cases.<BR><BR>The cl=
assic paper, although way pre-web is Cimino's Desiderata paper Methods of I=
nformation in Medicine37(4-5): pp. 394-403. Some of the issues are clearly =
parochial to medicine, but others seem entirely general.<BR><BR>Regards<BR>=
<BR>Alan<BR><BR>Thomas Baker wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Natasha, Alan,<BR>&gt;<BR>&=
gt; On the basis of previous discussion of the VM draft, it<BR>&gt; was cle=
ar to me exactly what role you would want to have in<BR>&gt; the paper.<BR>=
&gt;<BR>&gt; Note that in its current form, the draft is set up to cite<BR>=
&gt; practices from a handful of example vocabularies (FOAF, Dublin<BR>&gt;=
 Core, SKOS, etc) to illustrate some general principles.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I =
was wondering whether, between the two of you, there is<BR>&gt; a major voc=
abulary in medicine or the life sciences about<BR>&gt; which you would be w=
illing to provide some explanatory text<BR>&gt; and references (with regard=
 to use of URI references, formal<BR>&gt; schemas, etc).&nbsp; Having one r=
eally large-scale, tightly designed<BR>&gt; ontology would be perfect to ro=
und out the set of examples.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Any other ideas most welcome.<=
BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thank you,<BR>&gt; Tom<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- A major medical or life-sciences vocabulary?<BR>&gt; &gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; TASK: Alan or Natasha - An=
 example of a large-scale ontology?<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do we perhaps need another major ex=
ample?&nbsp; It would<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; be good to have a "large-scale" vocabulary of the=
<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; "ontology" sort, preferably with some well-defined<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; maintenance and=
 versioning policies...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Dr. Thomas Baker&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A href=3D"mailto:T=
homas.Baker%40izb.fraunhofer.de?Subject=3DRe%3A%20%5BVM%5D%20Natasha%20and%=
20Alan&amp;In-Reply-To=3D<4180DA03.118CD2F3%40cs.man.ac.uk>&amp;References=
=3D<4180DA03.118CD2F3%40cs.man.ac.uk>">[email protected]</A><B=
R>&gt; Institutszentrum Schloss Birlinghoven&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; mobile +49-160-9664-2129<BR>&gt; Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
work +49-30-8109-9027<BR>&gt; 53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; fax +49-2241-144-2352<BR>&gt; Personal email: <A hr=
ef=3D"mailto:thbaker79%40alumni.amherst.edu?Subject=3DRe%3A%20%5BVM%5D%20Na=
tasha%20and%20Alan&amp;In-Reply-To=3D<4180DA03.118CD2F3%40cs.man.ac.uk>&amp=
;References=3D<4180DA03.118CD2F3%40cs.man.ac.uk>">[email protected].=
edu</A><BR><BR>--<BR>Alan L Rector<BR>Professor of Medical Informatics<BR>D=
epartment of Computer Science<BR>University of Manchester<BR>Manchester M13=
 9PL, UK<BR>TEL: +44-161-275-6188/6149/7183<BR>FAX: +44-161-275-6236/6204<B=
R>Room: 2.88a, Kilburn Building<BR>email: <A href=3D"http://binary-search.o=
rg/">[email protected]</A><BR>web: <A href=3D"http://enter-se.com/">www.c=
s.man.ac.uk/mig</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A href=
=3D"http://seek-time.org/">www.opengalen.org</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A href=3D"http://search-options.com/">www.clinical-esc=
ience.org</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A href=3D"http=
://your-search.org/">www.co-ode.org</A><BR><BR>
--=20
<p>___________________________________________________________<br>Sign-up f=
or Ads Free at Mail.com<br>
<a href=3D"http://mail01.mail.com/scripts/payment/adtracking.cgi?bannercode=
=3Dadsfreejump01" target=3D"_blank">http://www.mail.com/?sr=3Dsignup</a></p>