Re: Firefox addin to replace 404 pages with archived pages from wayback machine

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On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Noah Mendelsohn <[email protected]>
wrote:

> See [1].
>
> I thought this might be of some interest to the TAG. Seems to me that this
> is OK insofar as the addin is a modification to a user agent, and is
> presumably activated only with the user's consent.
>
> Nonethess, this seems to embody a slightly skewed view of Web protocols:
> if I as a URI authority serve a new or updated page, your browser will do
> what I intend and show the user that new content. If I delete a page, the
> browser will not honor that deletion, but will show content anyway. This
> seems to me just a bit of a slippery slope. A 404 is just as meaningful in
> Web protocols (no such page) as a 200 IMO.
>
> I'm not proposing that the TAG do anything about this or devote
> significant time to it right now, just pointing it out in case it's of
> interest.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Noah
>
>
> [1] http://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/news/firefox-will-try-to-show-y
> ou-saved-archive-of-a-page-instead-of-404-error-869482
>
>

Noah,

The UA actually shows a prompt when it encounters a 404 if there is a
version in wayback[1].  It seems that both wayback and the UA are acting
entirely within their appropriate boundaries to me, does it not? Your
deletion is indeed honored, but if someone archived that it is indeed
archived.  If you setup your server not to be, it shouldn't be (though it
really still could be).  If the UA offers help in finding that, that seems
really not a lot different than all sorts of a lot of browser features
(like a search toolbar).  Am I misunderstanding something?


[1]
https://testpilot-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/experiments_experimenttourstep/d/a/dafca30f93dadf7f13cc48d389e08f84_image_1470245154_0851.jpg


-- 
Brian Kardell :: @briankardell

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Noah Mendelsohn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">nrm@arcanedomain.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-=
left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">See [1].<br>
<br>
I thought this might be of some interest to the TAG. Seems to me that this =
is OK insofar as the addin is a modification to a user agent, and is presum=
ably activated only with the user&#39;s consent.<br>
<br>
Nonethess, this seems to embody a slightly skewed view of Web protocols: if=
 I as a URI authority serve a new or updated page, your browser will do wha=
t I intend and show the user that new content. If I delete a page, the brow=
ser will not honor that deletion, but will show content anyway. This seems =
to me just a bit of a slippery slope. A 404 is just as meaningful in Web pr=
otocols (no such page) as a 200 IMO.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not proposing that the TAG do anything about this or devote signifi=
cant time to it right now, just pointing it out in case it&#39;s of interes=
t.<br>
<br>
Thank you.<br>
<br>
Noah<br>
<br>
<br>
[1] <a href=3D"http://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/news/firefox-will-try-to-show-y=
ou-saved-archive-of-a-page-instead-of-404-error-869482" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/n<wbr>ews/firefox-will-try-t=
o-show-y<wbr>ou-saved-archive-of-a-page-ins<wbr>tead-of-404-error-869482</a=
><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br>Noah,<br><br>The UA actually shows a prompt when=
 it encounters a 404 if there is a version in wayback[1].=C2=A0 It seems th=
at both wayback and the UA are acting entirely within their appropriate bou=
ndaries to me, does it not? Your deletion is indeed honored, but if someone=
 archived that it is indeed archived.=C2=A0 If you setup your server not to=
 be, it shouldn&#39;t be (though it really still could be).=C2=A0 If the UA=
 offers help in finding that, that seems really not a lot different than al=
l sorts of a lot of browser features (like a search toolbar).=C2=A0 Am I mi=
sunderstanding something?</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">[1] <a href=3D"htt=
ps://testpilot-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/experiments_experimenttourstep/d/a/daf=
ca30f93dadf7f13cc48d389e08f84_image_1470245154_0851.jpg">https://testpilot-=
prod.s3.amazonaws.com/experiments_experimenttourstep/d/a/dafca30f93dadf7f13=
cc48d389e08f84_image_1470245154_0851.jpg</a><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br>=
</div>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signatu=
re"><span>Brian Kardell :: @briankardell</span><br></div>
</div></div>

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