Re: Wikipedia at 25: A Wake-Up Call (essay)
Anders Wennersten via Wikimedia-l <[email protected]> Fri, 5 Jun 2026 10:29:18 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
Eu has for internal use decided to stop using Google as search tool and instead use Qwant. I have now done the same, as I do not want to use tools from the big techs. We could promote harder our general mission to use free software, or att lest phase out software from companies like Google (I still though use adobe for PDF) Anders Den 2026-06-05 kl. 09:24, skrev Yaroslav Blanter via Wikimedia-l: > I started about a week ago a discussion on the English Wikipedia how > can we respond to the imminent changes in the Google search which will > give more emphasis to the AI output and less to the list of links. > Unfortunately, it did not generate a lot of ideas (though I obviously > should have expected this). I do not expect this thread to generate > much, but may be some people would start thinking about it. > > I think it is pretty easy to predict that when this has been > implemented (they say this Summer) humans (almost) will stop clicking > on Wikipedia links because they will get all the information from AI > in prose. We will stop getting human visitors. We need to respond to this. > > One thing is that we can still read print material or paywall material > whereas AI can not. It is quickly becoming a niche activity but it > still exists. But more importantly, we need to think what else we are > doing better than AI (well, sure, AI learns on what we produce, but we > currently can not capitalize on this, we are not running the Google > search). If we can not we stop existing much sooner than it looks now. > > Best > Yaroslav > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2026 at 9:08 AM Christophe Henner via Wikimedia-l > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi this is my irregular email to try to get more widespread > reactions and engagement and discussion from volunteers to board > of trustees. > > On global mobile traffic, after a -6.83% between May 2025 and May > 2024, we're shattering records with a nice -18.27% between 2026 > and 2025. > > Oh yes, data may be dirty. So let's say it's even half of that > it's still a -10%. > > "Christophe why are you not using Desktop data": historically > desktop data has proven quite unreliable for many reasons (and > this week the chinese wikipedia desktop outburst is surprising and > makes desktop data hard to read (on top of other outbursts). > > So when we start playing with the -10% to 20% year over year, > shall we start mobilizing? Or we just all grab mojitos and virgin > mojitos and look at the collapse? > > Oh hey if it wasn't clear before, the one body that can muster > ressources to mobilize our movement is the board of trustees. > Every day we are not mobilizing is your decision. > Every day you are not engaging publicly in those decision is your > decision. > Every day... I could make a long list you get the idea. > > Right now the legacy you're building is a -20% trend leading to > collapse legacy. > > I know this is hard to read, I know this may trigger a defensive > reaction. But time for tiptoeing around topics and problems is > long gone. We need swift and radical and unifying actions. If we > are to go through this situation we need collective action not > inaction. > > -18.27% YoY on mobile : > https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/all-projects/reading/total-page-views/normal|bar|2021-11-07~2026-06-05|(access)~mobile-app*mobile-web+agent~user|monthly > <https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/all-projects/reading/total-page-views/normal%7Cbar%7C2021-11-07~2026-06-05%7C(access)~mobile-app*mobile-web+agent~user%7Cmonthly> > > -- > Christophe > > > On Tue, 5 May 2026 at 10:26, Tomasz Ganicz via Wikimedia-l > <[email protected]> wrote: > > This is what almost all universities around the world are > doing but in professional way.The issue is that regular > teaching needs regular time commitment of qualified teachers > which is hard to organize on voluntary model. Also in order to > maintain minimal quality of teaching you need a system of > checking teachers qualifications and skills. > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > pon., 4 maj 2026, 15:22 użytkownik Felipe Schenone via > Wikimedia-l <[email protected]> napisał: > > Hi! As we know, Wikimedia's mission isn't to build an > encyclopedia (that's Wikipedia's mission) but rather "a > world in which every single human being can freely share > in the sum of all knowledge". Perhaps the new landscape > will slowly strip Wikipedia of its leading role in the > Wikimedia movement, and perhaps (hopefully) some other > project will take over. I agree with Chris in that our > core strength is our community, and I also agree with > James in that writing tertiary sources is becoming > outdated. How can we keep striving for our vision, while > making the most of our strength (the community) but > through a project that doesn't involve writing tertiary > sources? > > Here's an idea: Wikiversity could become so much more than > what it currently is. It could become a real "online > university", multilingual and global, where real-time > courses with real humans are taught (as well as the > asynchronous courses that already exist today). And not > just courses, but eventually entire university programs > that award real degrees. I'm sure our community is filled > with excellent teachers, academics and experts that could > lead such courses in many languages, as well as many > others that could support them in other ways (answering > questions, preparing reading material, exercises, exams, > etc). We'd need to develop and integrate some software > like Zoom or Meet, and much more, of course, but that's > beyond the point, as we could start with existing software > now, and develop better tools as we go along. Humans > teaching humans, would be a good summary of the idea. > > I could digress for a while, but I might be delusional, so > I'll stop here. However, if anyone supports or would like > to talk, I'd be happy to continue on-wiki > (User:Sophivorus). Cheers! > > On Mon, May 4, 2026 at 7:47 AM AcDc CluvR via Wikimedia-l > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Christophe. Tnx for writing this! I used to be > member of the board, chapter, moderator, arbitration > committee ... User Dolledre on some wiki's, mostly > nl.wiki. In my opinion crawling 'our' data should not > be so darn easy for AI models. Willing to block them > by hand if they keep hallucinating on 'our' data. > Interrogating like 4 of them daily, mainly on how they > work. Do know how to lead them towards total > confusion. Even if Wikipedia could develop the best AI > code in the world, we would still be sharing it. It's > the paradox to sweat out till humanity is either > hallucinating as a whole either returning till mental > sanity. Kind regards. D. PS: Want a free image of a > fox eating a banana in my kitchen? ;-) > > Op za 10 jan 2026 om 00:41 schreef Christophe Henner > <[email protected]>: > > Hey everyone, > > I struggled with the object, the most honest one > would be "Last exit before irrelevance" but that > would be a bit violent. > > So, Wikipedia turns 25 next week. I've been here > for over twenty of those years, including stints > chairing Wikimedia France and the Foundation > Board. And honestly? I'm worried. Scared to be > honnest. > > Over the last years, I've been regularly crunching > data and sharing on different channels my worries. > But in the last few weeks I decided to make > a much more structured "essay" of my findings > > Since 2016, the internet nearly doubled in size. > > Our page views? Down. New editor sign-ups? Down 36%. > > The people keeping this thing running are working > harder than ever, but there are fewer of them > every year. > > I wrote it all up: the numbers, what I think went > wrong, what I think we need to do about it. Fair > warning: it's long, it's opinionated, and some of > it will probably make you mad. > > *Here it is: > *https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Schiste/what-now > > > I'm not trying to be doom and gloom for the sake > of it. I genuinely believe we have maybe two years > to make some hard calls about AI, about money, > about who we're actually serving. After that, the > window closes and we become irrelevant. > > Could be wrong. Hope I am. But I'd rather we have > this argument now than wish we had later. Well I'd > rather we had this argument two or four years ago, > but now we will make do. > > Read it, tell me where I'm off base. Let's argue > and debate. That's what talk pages are for, right? > > PS: Foundation board mailing list is bcc'ed, > change cannot happen without their commitment. And > fast. > > -- > > Christophe > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- > [email protected], guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/X3SQ2WA7QF2XS56XV2EOPDPUZ6UQPCR4/ > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- > [email protected], guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/TYXFRDYSUH3WUYM5P4MADNQI42NZXWTX/ > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- > [email protected], guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/UD4JDQEN5P24GA7DYIWMB5NKVO5MCO2Y/ > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/DIGXAKYMSR56ETXSHKSG6CIONMEM56RU/ > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/WJ6VRJAZTRYTPPN44K2NSHBO5WSWLGBF/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list [email protected], guidelines at:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines andhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives athttps://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/ACGMDXVI3CZIW4LHVB3MEXEAT7GSXFCL/ > To unsubscribe send an email towikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/BH2HACS4M45PJHHVKSZJL5S277ZTVEDB/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org