Re: Discussion about a way forward Was: Re: Wikipedia at 25: A Wake-Up Call (essay)
Ilario Valdelli via Wikimedia-l <[email protected]> Mon, 6 Jul 2026 11:21:57 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAKHM5ETTrWPJkcxDv8apc5dXm65-7gqztif_2039Z7V_cXH42w@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============7912133626890045489== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000a3b740655edcf42" --0000000000000a3b740655edcf42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Liam for the correction and the updated figures =E2=80=94 you are= right, I was working from the older report. And I'm glad to have been wrong: on the API side, I think Enterprise is doing excellent work, and it's clearly the right path. Precisely because of that, let me stress the point my first message ended on: most of this discussion has been about funding, and very little about the community. Yet everything Enterprise sells =E2=80=94 freshness, reliabi= lity, provenance =E2=80=94 is produced by volunteers. The API is the pipe; the co= mmunity is the source. As long as there are humans creating and verifying new content, new lifeblood flowing into these systems, the APIs make sense =E2= =80=94 and Enterprise's growth curve will take care of itself. If that flow weakens, no pricing model saves us. So keeping the human in the loop is not the soft, secondary topic next to the revenue conversation: it is the same conversation. Our future and Enterprise's future are decided in the same place. I would like the "way forward" discussion to treat them as one problem, in that order of priority= . Kind regards On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 10:19=E2=80=AFAM Liam Wyatt via Wikimedia-l < [email protected]> wrote: > Hello Illario, > Quickly replying to these points about the 'Enterprise' API project since > it's pertinent to your message - but not wanting to derail from the > substantive purpose of this email thread. For any followup, please come t= o > the project talkpage.[1] > > My reply comments inline: > On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 at 18:02, Ilario valdelli via Wikimedia-l < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> First, a request for whoever works on revenue. The essay proposes >> expanding Enterprise into verification services that AI companies would = pay >> for. >> > When the essay was originally published, Christophe, my colleagues and I > met to discuss his proposal. We hope to continue these conversations duri= ng > Wikimania in both the main program and side-events. Anyone also attending > this year: please come and say hello! > >> Enterprise has existed since 2021. Revenue in FY 2023-24 was 3.4M USD, >> about 1.8% of Foundation revenue; the figure comes from Christophe's own >> footnotes. >> > Since then, there was another annual financial report covering FY 24-25. > It reported 8.3M USD, about 4%.[2] The FY 25-26 period has only just > concluded by the project's annual report will be published later this yea= r > (coinciding with the WMF audit report). Nevertheless, the FY 26-27 Annual > Plan calls for $18.5M in annual contracts.[3] > >> Five years, in the middle of the largest spending boom on data this >> industry has ever seen, and the buyer has not shown up. >> > While some will certainly say that the above numbers are 'too much' and > some will say it is 'too little'. We have indeed announced many new > partners.[4] > >> I am not saying the thesis is wrong. I am saying the numbers we already >> have contradict it, and understanding why should be the first task of th= at >> group, before any plan to scale. >> > Importantly, the above numbers and targets are demonstrating steady, > sensible growth. The point has always been about sustainable > diversification and NOT maximisation of revenue. Much of that 'spending > boom' you refer to *one-time* licensing deals (or lawsuits) for publisher= s. > but as we know, Wikimedia content is already freely licensed. You can see > the project principles that reiterate the adherence to F/LOSS (and also > that there would only ever be a maximum of 30% WMF revenue from commercia= l > sources) here.[5] > > Is the product underinvested? Is the price of something that is also >> legally free bound to stay near zero? Is the demand somewhere we have no= t >> looked? I don't know, and I would distrust anyone who answers too quickl= y. > > I also want to highlight the quarterly product updates[6] and in > particular the recent(ish) news that Wikidata is now available in this AP= I > platform[7] and that the extent of what can be obtained for free via it h= as > been massively increased.[8] This refers back to the Principles that the > *content* and features is the same for everyone - including free access - > and there is also now an "exceptional access" request process for > mission-aligned usecases that require high-volume/speed.[5] > As above - this is all about ensuring a sustainable approach. The money > follows the mission, not the other way around. > >> > Liam Wyatt > [note: although I'm writing this from my gmail account - which is the > easiest because it has been subscribed here for many years - for the > avoidance of doubt, this email is on behalf of my [email protected] ro= le > at the WMF as Tech Partnerships and community advocacy for the Enterprise > team. Thank you.] > > > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Enterprise > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise#Governance > [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise/FY26-27 > [4] https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/blog/tag/partner/ > [5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise/Principles > [6] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise/Updates > [7] > https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/blog/wikidata-api-endpoints-wikimedia-en= terprise/ > [8] https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/blog/enhanced-free-api/ > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]= rg/message/OQIDFA3XAY3HGVW4KNEBFOVAMBS4CZLU/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org --=20 Ilario Valdelli Skype: valdelli Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch --0000000000000a3b740655edcf42 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"> <p class=3D"gmail-font-claude-response-body gmail-break-words gmail-whitesp= ace-normal">Thank you Liam for the correction and the updated figures =E2= =80=94 you are right, I was working from the older report. And I'm glad= to have been wrong: on the API side, I think Enterprise is doing excellent= work, and it's clearly the right path.</p> <p class=3D"gmail-font-claude-response-body gmail-break-words gmail-whitesp= ace-normal">Precisely because of that, let me stress the point my first mes= sage ended on: most of this discussion has been about funding, and very lit= tle about the community. Yet everything Enterprise sells =E2=80=94 freshnes= s, reliability, provenance =E2=80=94 is produced by volunteers. The API is = the pipe; the community is the source. As long as there are humans creating= and verifying new content, new lifeblood flowing into these systems, the A= PIs make sense =E2=80=94 and Enterprise's growth curve will take care o= f itself. If that flow weakens, no pricing model saves us.</p> <p class=3D"gmail-font-claude-response-body gmail-break-words gmail-whitesp= ace-normal">So keeping the human in the loop is not the soft, secondary top= ic next to the revenue conversation: it is the same conversation. Our futur= e and Enterprise's future are decided in the same place. I would like t= he "way forward" discussion to treat them as one problem, in that= order of priority.<br><br></p><p class=3D"gmail-font-claude-response-body = gmail-break-words gmail-whitespace-normal">Kind regards</p> <br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"= ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 10:19=E2=80=AFAM Liam Wyat= t via Wikimedia-l <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">wi= [email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20= 4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hello Illario,=C2=A0<br>= Quickly replying to these points about the 'Enterprise' API project= since it's pertinent to your message - but not wanting to derail from = the substantive purpose of this email thread. For any followup, please come= to the project talkpage.[1]</div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"backgr= ound-color:transparent">My reply comments inline:</span></div><div class=3D= "gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 at 1= 8:02, Ilario valdelli via Wikimedia-l <<a href=3D"mailto:wikimedia-l@lis= ts.wikimedia.org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>= wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px = 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p> First, a request for whoever works on revenue. The essay proposes expanding Enterprise into verification services that AI companies would pay for. </p></div></blockquote><div><span style=3D"background-= color:transparent">When the essay was originally published, Christophe, my = colleagues and I met to discuss his proposal. We hope to continue these con= versations during Wikimania in both the main program and side-events. Anyon= e also attending this year: please come and say hello!</span></div><blockqu= ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px= solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>Enterprise has existed si= nce 2021. Revenue in FY 2023-24 was 3.4M USD, about 1.8% of Foundation revenue; the figure comes from Christophe's own footnotes. </p></div></blockquote><di= v>Since then, there was another annual financial report covering FY 24-25. = It reported 8.3M USD, about 4%.[2] The FY 25-26 period has only just conclu= ded by the project's annual report will be published later this year (c= oinciding with the WMF audit report). Nevertheless, the FY 26-27 Annual Pla= n calls for $18.5M in annual contracts.[3]=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg= b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>Five years, in the middle of the largest spending boom on data this industry has ever seen, and the buyer has not shown up.=C2=A0</p></div></blockquote><div><spa= n style=3D"background-color:transparent">While some will certainly say that= the above numbers are 'too much' and some will say it is 'too = little'. We have indeed announced many new partners.[4]</span><span sty= le=3D"background-color:transparent">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"background-= color:transparent">=C2=A0</span></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty= le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi= ng-left:1ex"><div><p><span style=3D"background-color:transparent">I am not = saying the thesis is wrong. I am saying the numbers we already have contradict it, and understanding why should be the first task of that group, before any plan to scale.=C2=A0</span></p></div></blockquote><div>Importantl= y, the above numbers and targets are demonstrating steady, sensible growth.= The point has always been about sustainable diversification and NOT maximi= sation of revenue. Much of that 'spending boom' you refer=C2=A0to *= one-time* licensing deals (or lawsuits) for publishers. but as we know, Wik= imedia content is already freely licensed. You can see the project principl= es that reiterate the adherence to F/LOSS (and also that there would only e= ver be a maximum of 30% WMF revenue from commercial sources) here.[5]=C2=A0= </div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px = 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Is t= he product underinvested? Is the price of something that is also legally fr= ee bound to stay near zero? Is the demand somewhere we have not looked? I d= on't know, and I would distrust anyone who answers too quickly.</blockq= uote><div>I also want to highlight the quarterly product updates[6] and in = particular the recent(ish) news that Wikidata is now available in this API = platform[7] and that the extent of what can be obtained for free via it has= been massively increased.[8] This refers back to the Principles that the *= content* and features is the same for everyone - including free access - an= d there is also now an "exceptional access" request process for m= ission-aligned usecases that require high-volume/speed.<span style=3D"backg= round-color:transparent">[5]=C2=A0</span></div><div><span style=3D"backgrou= nd-color:transparent">As above - this is all about ensuring a sustainable a= pproach. The money follows the mission, not the other way around.</span></d= iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord= er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div></div></blockquot= e><div>=C2=A0<span style=3D"background-color:transparent">=C2=A0</span></di= v><div>Liam Wyatt</div><div>[note: a<span style=3D"background-color:transpa= rent">lthough I'm writing this from my gmail account - which is the eas= iest because it has been subscribed here for many years - for the avoidance= of doubt, this email is on behalf of my=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:lwya= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><span style=3D"= background-color:transparent">=C2=A0role at the WMF as Tech Partnerships an= d community advocacy for the Enterprise team. Thank you.]=C2=A0<br></span><= br></div><div><br></div><div>[1]=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org= /wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Enterprise" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.o= rg/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Enterprise</a>=C2=A0</div><div>[2]=C2=A0<a href=3D"h= ttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise#Governance" target=3D"_= blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise#Governance</a><= /div><div>[3]=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Ent= erprise/FY26-27" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedi= a_Enterprise/FY26-27</a></div><div>[4]=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://enterprise.w= ikimedia.com/blog/tag/partner/" target=3D"_blank">https://enterprise.wikime= dia.com/blog/tag/partner/</a></div><div>[5]=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://meta.wi= kimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise/Principles" target=3D"_blank">https:/= /meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise/Principles</a></div><div>[6]= =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise/Update= s" target=3D"_blank">https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise/Up= dates</a></div><div>[7]=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/bl= og/wikidata-api-endpoints-wikimedia-enterprise/" target=3D"_blank">https://= enterprise.wikimedia.com/blog/wikidata-api-endpoints-wikimedia-enterprise/<= /a></div><div>[8]=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/blog/enh= anced-free-api/" target=3D"_blank">https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/blog/en= hanced-free-api/</a></div></div></div> _______________________________________________<br> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= rg" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>, guidelines at: <= a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines" rel=3D"= noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists= /Guidelines</a> and <a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l"= rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikim= edia-l</a><br> Public archives at <a href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/w= [email protected]/message/OQIDFA3XAY3HGVW4KNEBFOVAMBS4CZLU/" r= el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/= list/[email protected]/message/OQIDFA3XAY3HGVW4KNEBFOVAMBS4CZ= LU/</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= ikimedia.org" target=3D"_blank">wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org</a></= blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><br><span class=3D"gmail_sign= ature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div= dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><span><font col= or=3D"#888888">Ilario Valdelli</font></span></div><div><span><font color=3D= "#888888">Skype: valdelli<br></font></span></div></div><span></span><span><= /span></div></div></div><span><font color=3D"#888888"> </font></span><div><div><div><div><div><span><font color=3D"#888888">Tel: <= a value=3D"+41764821371">+41764821371</a><br><a href=3D"http://www.wikimedi= a.ch/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.wikimedia.ch</a></font></span></div></d= iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> --0000000000000a3b740655edcf42-- --===============7912133626890045489== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/LWD5NDA4STO4CAAOQ36M2EEGCRF3Q5M6/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org --===============7912133626890045489==--