Re: Google Zero is coming [was Re: Wikipedia at 25: A Wake-Up Call (essay)]
Kimmo Virtanen via Wikimedia-l <[email protected]> Thu, 9 Jul 2026 09:35:11 +0300
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAHJYWXHwwSN0B0hNWqGajN6BVdkkdmF6QPAVvgy=jna=nRoy9w@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============6657443987917146283== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001812da065627d4bc" --0000000000001812da065627d4bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Secondly, I'd love to see initiative outside of enwiki. If you look at all > the ~1000 Wikimedia projects, almost all of them are seeing an increase i= n > traffic ; only a few big old wikipedias are seeing a decrease (which are > also the ones with the most traffic, hence why it's more visible but it > obfuscate at the big picture) Based on stats total pageviews of human users of all wikis are dropping - https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/all-projects/reading/total-page-views/normal|= bar|all|(agent)~user|monthly Br, -- Kimmo Virtanen, Zache On Thu, Jul 9, 2026 at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM Nicolas VIGNERON via Wikimedia-l < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi y'all, > > First could someone remind me how much traffic comes from Google (I have = a > vague memory from last year that this is already very low - maybe 10 or 2= 0 > % - and that LLMs are already bringing more traffic to Wikipedia, if true > we essentially are at Google Zero already). > > Secondly, I'd love to see initiative outside of enwiki. If you look at al= l > the ~1000 Wikimedia projects, almost all of them are seeing an increase i= n > traffic ; only a few big old wikipedias are seeing a decrease (which are > also the ones with the most traffic, hence why it's more visible but it > obfuscate at the big picture). > I think we should start by looking at and learning from the "successful" > projects instead of focusing on the declining ones. For instance, > Wikisources always have been badly to not-at-all referenced by Google and > yet there is a strong increase in pageviews recently. > > Cheers, > Nicolas > > Le jeu. 9 juil. 2026 =C3=A0 03:38, Michael Snow via Wikimedia-l < > [email protected]> a =C3=A9crit : > >> On 7/8/2026 12:52 PM, Luis Villa via Wikimedia-l wrote: >> > - Scale of impact is important, but it isn=E2=80=99t everything. Somet= imes >> > we=E2=80=99ll have to build things without knowing if they=E2=80=99ll = scale, or even >> > perhaps knowing that they won=E2=80=99t scale (eg Depths of Wikipedia = is one >> > of the best community-builders we have even though it has =E2=80=9Conl= y=E2=80=9D a few >> > million followers). =E2=80=9CThat=E2=80=99s good but it won=E2=80=99t = scale to enwiki=E2=80=9D can >> > never be allowed to be a blocker for anyone. If the experiment is >> > actually great, then we=E2=80=99ll figure out a way to get it onto enw= iki. Or >> > not! That shouldn=E2=80=99t stop people. >> >> At this point, no single initiative (whether community, chapter, or >> WMF-led) will have an inherent capacity to scale to enwiki. To do so >> would require corporate-style resources with a corresponding top-down >> mandate for implementation, and risk (rightly) triggering resistance to >> the point of launching a true durable fork, for once. Instead, the best >> approach would be to find ideas that are good enough to propagate, >> encourage them, and when they have propagated enough, they will scale >> with relatively little intervention needed. >> >> --Michael Snow >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]= org/message/6EQOFSG34E3BC6FIYL55HYBTQBAW4XFN/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]= rg/message/4WPCSTZNDMBDMYHWHV27BN2EZLGY5LXB/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org --0000000000001812da065627d4bc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding= -left:1ex"><font color=3D"#134f5c">Secondly, I'd love to see initiative= outside of enwiki. If you look at all the ~1000 Wikimedia projects, almost= all of them are seeing an increase in traffic ; only a few big old wikiped= ias are seeing=C2=A0a decrease (which are also the ones with the most traff= ic,=C2=A0hence why it's more visible but it obfuscate at the big pictur= e)</font></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Based on stats total pageviews of= human users of all wikis are dropping</div><div>-<span class=3D"gmail-Appl= e-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/al= l-projects/reading/total-page-views/normal%7Cbar%7Call%7C(agent)~user%7Cmon= thly" target=3D"_blank">https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/all-projects/reading/= total-page-views/normal|bar|all|(agent)~user|monthly</a>=C2=A0</div><div><b= r></div><div>Br,</div><div>-- Kimmo Virtanen, Zache</div></div><br><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at= tr">On Thu, Jul 9, 2026 at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM Nicolas VIGNERON via Wikimedia-l= <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]= ikimedia.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl= e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin= g-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi y'all,</div><div><br></div><div>Fi= rst could someone remind me how much traffic comes from Google (I have a va= gue memory from last year that this is already very low - maybe 10 or 20 % = - and that LLMs are already=C2=A0bringing more traffic to Wikipedia, if tru= e we essentially are at Google Zero already).</div><div><br></div><div>Seco= ndly, I'd love to see initiative outside of enwiki. If you look at all = the ~1000 Wikimedia projects, almost all of them are seeing an increase in = traffic ; only a few big old wikipedias are seeing=C2=A0a decrease (which a= re also the ones with the most traffic,=C2=A0hence why it's more visibl= e but it obfuscate at the big picture).</div><div>I think we should start b= y looking at and learning from the "successful" projects instead = of focusing on the declining ones. For instance, Wikisources always have be= en badly to not-at-all referenced by Google and yet there is a strong incre= ase in pageviews recently.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Nicol= as</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai= l_attr">Le=C2=A0jeu. 9 juil. 2026 =C3=A0=C2=A003:38, Michael Snow via Wikim= edia-l <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_bl= ank">[email protected]</a>> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<br></div><= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 7/8/2026 12:52 PM, Luis= Villa via Wikimedia-l wrote:<br> > - Scale of impact is important, but it isn=E2=80=99t everything. Somet= imes <br> > we=E2=80=99ll have to build things without knowing if they=E2=80=99ll = scale, or even <br> > perhaps knowing that they won=E2=80=99t scale (eg Depths of Wikipedia = is one <br> > of the best community-builders we have even though it has =E2=80=9Conl= y=E2=80=9D a few <br> > million followers). =E2=80=9CThat=E2=80=99s good but it won=E2=80=99t = scale to enwiki=E2=80=9D can <br> > never be allowed to be a blocker for anyone. If the experiment is <br> > actually great, then we=E2=80=99ll figure out a way to get it onto enw= iki. Or <br> > not! That shouldn=E2=80=99t stop people.<br> <br> At this point, no single initiative (whether community, chapter, or <br> WMF-led) will have an inherent capacity to scale to enwiki. To do so <br> would require corporate-style resources with a corresponding top-down <br> mandate for implementation, and risk (rightly) triggering resistance to <br= > the point of launching a true durable fork, for once. Instead, the best <br= > approach would be to find ideas that are good enough to propagate, <br> encourage them, and when they have propagated enough, they will scale <br> with relatively little intervention needed.<br> <br> --Michael Snow<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= rg" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>, guidelines at: <= a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines" rel=3D"= noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists= /Guidelines</a> and <a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l"= rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikim= edia-l</a><br> Public archives at <a href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/w= [email protected]/message/6EQOFSG34E3BC6FIYL55HYBTQBAW4XFN/" r= el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/= list/[email protected]/message/6EQOFSG34E3BC6FIYL55HYBTQBAW4X= FN/</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= ikimedia.org" target=3D"_blank">wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org</a></= blockquote></div> _______________________________________________<br> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= rg" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>, guidelines at: <= a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines" rel=3D"= noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists= /Guidelines</a> and <a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l"= rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikim= edia-l</a><br> Public archives at <a href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/w= [email protected]/message/4WPCSTZNDMBDMYHWHV27BN2EZLGY5LXB/" r= el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/= list/[email protected]/message/4WPCSTZNDMBDMYHWHV27BN2EZLGY5L= XB/</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= ikimedia.org" target=3D"_blank">wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org</a></= blockquote></div> --0000000000001812da065627d4bc-- --===============6657443987917146283== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/W24PTVEX2A7YSR4YNHIUQTCGMAIMF2S3/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org --===============6657443987917146283==--