Re: WMF executives decision not to voluntarily recognize the union
James Heilman via Wikimedia-l <[email protected]> Wed, 29 Jul 2026 09:18:57 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAF1en7UTquJufwk4ttdkSDE+pjxhemoVM0LjHTaPCEnv0mYv7A@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============8405899606498365816== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000d09780657bb9c16" --0000000000000d09780657bb9c16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But Mike if we already have a "supermajority of the workers already did vote by signing a card"... why is additional process required for processes sake? How is this not a waste of time, energy, and money to result at an already clear outcome? As someone who was around during a time of extreme secrecy at the WMF, staff definitely need and deserve further protections and involvement in decision making. We do not want something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Engine_(search_engine) to happen again (it was a problem of development in secret rather than the idea itself). We are a movement that values transparency, yet recently have seen the WMF remove Bluerasberry from the election ballot for his calls for the WMF to live up to this value. Best, James On Mon, Jul 27, 2026 at 11:22=E2=80=AFPM Mike Peel via Wikimedia-l < [email protected]> wrote: > I hear the recording very differently than how you are portraying this > here. Listen to what Bernadette says in the recording. There's a process > that needs to happen, and that is exactly what Bernadette was > explaining. "If the decision is to have a union, then there will be a > union." > > We're all familiar with going through decision-making processes - they > are often very bureaucratic on the Wikimedia projects, but we respect > the process, and we don't like to see people taking shortcuts while the > discussions are happening. Give the process time here, and let's make > sure that it results in the best outcome for everyone in the long term. > > Thanks, > Mike > > On 27/07/2026 23:09, Hannah Clover via Wikimedia-l wrote: > > Another informative comment from Jbernick98: > > > > "As a U.S. trained labor lawyer and past organizer with WWU, this > > statement, alongside the WMF=E2=80=99s public facing community post ree= k of > > union-busting disinformation. What=E2=80=99s critical for the community= to know > > is that a supermajority of the workers already did vote by signing a > > card. This =E2=80=9Cextra step=E2=80=9D is just a delay tactic that emp= loyers are > > advised to do when they don=E2=80=99t want a union. They are doing the = same > > thing in the UK as well. > > These WMF workers have already been extremely brave by expressly > > affirming their commitment to a union. Years of efforts to get this > > accomplished. This is not some rash decision by them. Moreover, the > > community supports their union too! It literally makes no sense as to > > why WMF thought this was the right decision here in this critical momen= t. > > Finally, as a general reminder of the lack of good faith that was > > demonstrated by WMF here, there was a legal process for WMF, offered by > > the union, that intentionally avoided delay and going through the Trump > > administration. It is a very well-trodden path which includes a third- > > party arbitration process to verify the integrity of the signed members= . > > Again, I believe this demonstrates a willful attempt to ignore the > > supermajority of their workers=E2=80=99 desires and, worse, causes a fu= rther > > erosion of trust and goodwill between WMF management and their staff > > going forward." > > > > I really am incredibly disappointed that this is the battle the > > Wikimedia Foundation has decided to fight. I don't think this decision > > follows the ethics behind what makes the movement what it is. > > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 6:03=E2=80=AFp.m. Hannah Clover > > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > wrote: > > > > To anyone who wasn't present, I'd also like to point out what was > > said at the fireside chat: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/ > > > File:Questions_for_Bernadette_Meehan_regarding_the_WMF%27s_recognition_o= f_Wiki_Works_United.webm > < > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Questions_for_Bernadette_Meehan_r= egarding_the_WMF%27s_recognition_of_Wiki_Works_United.webm > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 5:59=E2=80=AFp.m. Hannah Clover > > <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > Incredibly sad to see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ > > Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#h- > > > Recent_questions_about_the_Foundation_and_US_unionization_request-202607= 27160700 > < > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#h-Recent_quest= ions_about_the_Foundation_and_US_unionization_request-20260727160700>. > Wikimedia Foundation employees deserve better than a statement that > attempts to mislead them. > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2026/07/27/statement-cwa-recognition= -request/ > < > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2026/07/27/statement-cwa-recognition= -request/> > is full of unionbusting rhetoric. The WMF should be better than that and > not be using the same tactics as Amazon. > > > > Only recognizing your employee's right to unionize when you are > > legally forced to is not being neutral about unions and it > > definitely isn't being supportive. > > > > I'd like to quote a statement from Femke in the above discussio= n: > > > > Today was a day to show trust in staff. Because trust is what w= e > > will need in the years ahead, which are likely going to be as > > chaotic as the last couple of years if not more so. The framing > > in this letter does not convince me the Foundation leadership i= s > > neutral in this matter. A small example: rather than > > acknowledging the WWU effort to build a global union (or networ= k > > of bargaining units), the text focuses on the CWA, which cannot > > represent global staff, seemingly to diminish international > > support: "It is important to note that the CWA is only seeking > > to represent a portion of US-based staff, and there is no globa= l > > union option due to different labor laws across countries and > > jurisdictions." Also note how the text emphasises the 'portion > > of', which is technically correct as US labour law exclude > > managers, but downplays the role of the union in representing > > most workers. > > The FAQ emphases what leadership calls 'good working > > conditions'. The listing of benefits tries to convince staff > > that all is well and that unions might not be necessary. What > > the text fails to mention is that these are not contractual and > > can be changed unilaterally. In tumultuous times, we need staff > > that has the security of actual 'secondary labour conditions' a= s > > we call them in the Netherlands. The 'benefits' are especially > > questionable when the "generous" 15-day holiday allowance would > > be illegal in every single EU country <https://en.wikipedia.org= / > > wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country>. > > Today was a day to show trust in staff. Instead, we've started = a > > rough road of persuasion and spin. Fortunately, as a movement, > > we are exceptionally well trained to recognise this. I'm > > confident staff will prevail. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]= rg/message/HZ4DCW4PMPFZAPVCB5FFP4PLU2V3BMNP/ > > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]= rg/message/7BRYNOFCYXWLP4OJOGXJLTCCTYCCNPVC/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org --=20 James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian --0000000000000d09780657bb9c16 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">But Mike if we already have a "supermajority of the w= orkers already did vote by signing a card"... why is additional proces= s required for processes sake? How is this not a waste of time, energy, and= money to result at an already clear outcome?<div><br></div><div>As someone= who was around during a time of extreme secrecy at the WMF, staff definite= ly=C2=A0need and deserve further protections and involvement in decision ma= king. We do not want something like this:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://en.wikipe= dia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Engine_(search_engine)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wik= i/Knowledge_Engine_(search_engine)</a> to happen again (it was a problem of= development in secret rather than the idea itself).=C2=A0</div><div><br></= div><div>We are a movement that values transparency, yet recently have seen= the WMF remove Bluerasberry from the election ballot for=C2=A0his calls fo= r the WMF to live up to this value.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><di= v>James</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><di= v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 27, 2026 at 11:22=E2=80=AFPM= Mike Peel via Wikimedia-l <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= a.org">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote = class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol= id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I hear the recording very differently= than how you are portraying this <br> here. Listen to what Bernadette says in the recording. There's a proces= s <br> that needs to happen, and that is exactly what Bernadette was <br> explaining. "If the decision is to have a union, then there will be a = <br> union."<br> <br> We're all familiar with going through decision-making processes - they = <br> are often very bureaucratic on the Wikimedia projects, but we respect <br> the process, and we don't like to see people taking shortcuts while the= <br> discussions are happening. Give the process time here, and let's make <= br> sure that it results in the best outcome for everyone in the long term.<br> <br> Thanks,<br> Mike<br> <br> On 27/07/2026 23:09, Hannah Clover via Wikimedia-l wrote:<br> > Another informative comment from Jbernick98:<br> > <br> > "As a U.S. trained labor lawyer and past organizer with WWU, this= <br> > statement, alongside the WMF=E2=80=99s public facing community post re= ek of <br> > union-busting disinformation. What=E2=80=99s critical for the communit= y to know <br> > is that a supermajority of the workers already did vote by signing a <= br> > card. This =E2=80=9Cextra step=E2=80=9D is just a delay tactic that em= ployers are <br> > advised to do when they don=E2=80=99t want a union. They are doing the= same <br> > thing in the UK as well.<br> > These WMF workers have already been extremely brave by expressly <br> > affirming their commitment to a union. Years of efforts to get this <b= r> > accomplished. This is not some rash decision by them. Moreover, the <b= r> > community supports their union too! It literally makes no sense as to = <br> > why WMF thought this was the right decision here in this critical mome= nt.<br> > Finally, as a general reminder of the lack of good faith that was <br> > demonstrated by WMF here, there was a legal process for WMF, offered b= y <br> > the union, that intentionally avoided delay and going through the Trum= p <br> > administration. It is a very well-trodden path which includes a third-= <br> > party arbitration process to verify the integrity of the signed member= s. <br> > Again, I believe this demonstrates a willful attempt to ignore the <br= > > supermajority of their workers=E2=80=99 desires and, worse, causes a f= urther <br> > erosion of trust and goodwill between WMF management and their staff <= br> > going forward."<br> > <br> > I really am incredibly disappointed that this is the battle the <br> > Wikimedia Foundation has decided to fight. I don't think this deci= sion <br> > follows the ethics behind what makes the movement what it is.<br> > <br> > On Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 6:03=E2=80=AFp.m. Hannah Clover <br> > <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"= >[email protected]</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:clovermossw= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>= > <br> > wrote:<br> > <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To anyone who wasn't present, I'd also like= to point out what was<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0said at the fireside chat: <a href=3D"https://commo= ns.wikimedia.org/wiki/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://common= s.wikimedia.org/wiki/</a><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0File:Questions_for_Bernadette_Meehan_regarding_the_= WMF%27s_recognition_of_Wiki_Works_United.webm <<a href=3D"https://common= s.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Questions_for_Bernadette_Meehan_regarding_the_WMF= %27s_recognition_of_Wiki_Works_United.webm" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b= lank">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Questions_for_Bernadette_Meeh= an_regarding_the_WMF%27s_recognition_of_Wiki_Works_United.webm</a>><br> > <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 5:59=E2=80=AFp.m. Hannah Clov= er<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= " target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:clovermosswikipedia@gm= ail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>> wrote:= <br> > <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Incredibly sad to see <a href=3D"http= s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://en= .wikipedia.org/wiki/</a><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#h-<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Recent_questions_about_the_Foundation= _and_US_unionization_request-20260727160700 <<a href=3D"https://en.wikip= edia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#h-Recent_questions_about_the_Fou= ndation_and_US_unionization_request-20260727160700" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ= et=3D"_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#h-= Recent_questions_about_the_Foundation_and_US_unionization_request-202607271= 60700</a>>. Wikimedia Foundation employees deserve better than a stateme= nt that attempts to mislead them. <a href=3D"https://wikimediafoundation.or= g/news/2026/07/27/statement-cwa-recognition-request/" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2026/07/27/statement-c= wa-recognition-request/</a> <<a href=3D"https://wikimediafoundation.org/= news/2026/07/27/statement-cwa-recognition-request/" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ= et=3D"_blank">https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2026/07/27/statement-cwa= -recognition-request/</a>> is full of unionbusting rhetoric. The WMF sho= uld be better than that and not be using the same tactics as Amazon.<br> > <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Only recognizing your employee's = right to unionize when you are<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0legally forced to is not being neutra= l about unions and it<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0definitely isn't being supportive= .<br> > <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I'd like to quote a statement fro= m Femke in the above discussion:<br> > <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Today was a day to show trust in staf= f. Because trust is what we<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0will need in the years ahead, which a= re likely going to be as<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0chaotic as the last couple of years i= f not more so. The framing<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in this letter does not convince me t= he Foundation leadership is<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0neutral in this matter. A small examp= le: rather than<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0acknowledging the WWU effort to build= a global union (or network<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of bargaining units), the text focuse= s on the CWA, which cannot<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0represent global staff, seemingly to = diminish international<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0support: "It is important to not= e that the CWA is only seeking<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to represent a portion of US-based st= aff, and there is no global<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0union option due to different labor l= aws across countries and<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0jurisdictions."=C2=A0Also note h= ow the text emphasises the 'portion<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of', which is technically correct= as US labour law exclude<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0managers, but downplays the role of t= he union in representing<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0most workers.<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The FAQ emphases what leadership call= s 'good working<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0conditions'. The listing of benef= its tries to convince staff<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that all is well and that unions migh= t not be necessary. What<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the text fails to mention is that the= se are not contractual and<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0can be changed unilaterally. In tumul= tuous times, we need staff<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that has the security of actual '= secondary labour conditions' as<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0we call them in the Netherlands. The = 'benefits' are especially<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0questionable when the "generous&= quot; 15-day holiday allowance would<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be illegal in every single EU country= <<a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://en.wikipedia.org/</a><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_= country>.<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Today was a day to show trust in staf= f. Instead, we've started a<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0rough road of persuasion and spin. Fo= rtunately, as a movement,<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0we are exceptionally well trained to = recognise this. I'm<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0confident staff will prevail.<br> > <br> > <br> > _______________________________________________<br> > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= dia.org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>, guidelines = at: <a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines" re= l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_= lists/Guidelines</a> and <a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimed= ia-l" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/= Wikimedia-l</a><br> > Public archives at <a href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/l= ist/[email protected]/message/HZ4DCW4PMPFZAPVCB5FFP4PLU2V3BMN= P/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperk= itty/list/[email protected]/message/HZ4DCW4PMPFZAPVCB5FFP4PLU= 2V3BMNP/</a><br> > To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@li= sts.wikimedia.org" target=3D"_blank">wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org<= /a><br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= rg" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>, guidelines at: <= a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines" rel=3D"= noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists= /Guidelines</a> and <a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l"= rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikim= edia-l</a><br> Public archives at <a href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/w= [email protected]/message/7BRYNOFCYXWLP4OJOGXJLTCCTYCCNPVC/" r= el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/= list/[email protected]/message/7BRYNOFCYXWLP4OJOGXJLTCCTYCCNP= VC/</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= ikimedia.org" target=3D"_blank">wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org</a></= blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><div><br></div><span class=3D= "gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_sign= ature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"= ltr">James Heilman<br>MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian</div></div></div></div></div>= </div> --0000000000000d09780657bb9c16-- --===============8405899606498365816== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/ZODW32KV2RLSXIKY7LDD37FMSEMXE44X/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org --===============8405899606498365816==--