Re: WMF executives decision not to voluntarily recognize the union
Hannah Clover via Wikimedia-l <[email protected]> Tue, 4 Aug 2026 04:22:40 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CA+DJtyA4JwP=ePWFAL8sQE16+whpD5nrD24bA_jvd=Uit0QtqA@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============9036934641313195622== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005a420b0658345c22" --0000000000005a420b0658345c22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jake has covered this again: https://medium.com/regarding-wikipedia/lies-damned-lies-and-union-busting-s= tatements-42254598b6e9 On Sun, Aug 2, 2026, 10:38=E2=80=AFp.m. Hannah Clover <clovermosswikipedia@= gmail.com> wrote: > May I also point out the wonderfully detailed coverage on the French > Wikipedia: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:RAW/2026-08-05/WW= U > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2026, 7:53=E2=80=AFp.m. James Heilman <[email protected]> w= rote: > >> It is being brought up that the WMF has brought on the law firm Littler >> Mendelson <https://www.nlrb.gov/case/20-RC-391740> for this case, which >> has been noted to have a history of trying to avoid unionization for the= ir >> corporate clients. >> >> For example this Wired piece says =E2=80=9CWhen you hire Littler Mendels= on, it=E2=80=99s >> an indication that you=E2=80=99re prepared to do whatever is necessary t= o defeat >> the union campaign,=E2=80=9D says Logan. =E2=80=9CThat you=E2=80=99re pr= epared to play hardball. >> <https://www.wired.com/story/apples-union-busting-campaign-caused-a-bad-= fallout/>=E2=80=9D >> >> >> If the WMF just wants to make sure staff have the ability to decide >> independently, choosing this law firm may not have been the best choice. >> >> Do we have estimates on timelines and costs? Best >> James >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 12:04=E2=80=AFPM James Heilman <[email protected]= > wrote: >> >>> Thanks Jimbo, that makes complete sense and also based on that agree a >>> secret vote is best :-) >>> >>> J >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 5:41=E2=80=AFPM Jimmy Wales <[email protected]= om> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >But Mike if we already have a "supermajority of the workers already >>>> did vote by signing a card"... why is additional process required for >>>> processes sake? How is >this not a waste of time, energy, and money to >>>> result at an already clear outcome? >>>> >>>> Hi James, this was a question that I had as well, and so I looked into >>>> it and thought about it. One of the problems with the process so far = is >>>> that it was >>>> not secret and we have heard from some staff members that they felt >>>> pressured because the organizers would know how they decided. That is= n't a >>>> great process and it goes against our movement's values quite badly to= have >>>> people in a situation where they are pressured into something one way = or >>>> the other. >>>> >>>> It's pretty easy to see the problem if we imagine it in the other >>>> direction - imagine some company asking staff to sign pledge cards not= to >>>> join a union, and keeping track of who did or didn't in order to put >>>> pressure on those who didn't. Gross. It doesn't make it better for i= t to >>>> be the other way around in my own personal view. >>>> >>>> I want a process where staff are safe to deliberate in the privacy of >>>> their own minds and make the decision based on all the available evide= nce >>>> that makes the most sense to them. So I don't think insisting on a pr= oper >>>> vote is process for the sake of process and I say that with my own est= imate >>>> that the staff will vote to support unionization. I think we'll be in= a >>>> better place if it's really clear - a clean and clear choice with no c= hance >>>> of pressure. >>>> >>>> In terms of time, energy, and money - I don't think it should take ver= y >>>> long and again speaking only for myself I hope we get it done as quick= ly >>>> and efficiently as we can and I hope that everyone - staff, management= , >>>> board, and community can come together to celebrate the outcome. I kn= ow I >>>> will. >>>> >>>> --Jimbo >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> James Heilman >>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian >>> >> >> >> -- >> James Heilman >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian >> > --0000000000005a420b0658345c22 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto">Jake has covered this again: <a href=3D"https://medium.co= m/regarding-wikipedia/lies-damned-lies-and-union-busting-statements-4225459= 8b6e9">https://medium.com/regarding-wikipedia/lies-damned-lies-and-union-bu= sting-statements-42254598b6e9</a></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_= quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 2, 2026,= 10:38=E2=80=AFp.m. Hannah Clover <<a href=3D"mailto:clovermosswikipedia= @gmail.com">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquo= te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so= lid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">May I also point out the wonderfull= y detailed coverage on the French Wikipedia: <a href=3D"https://fr.wikipedi= a.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:RAW/2026-08-05/WWU" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nore= ferrer">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:RAW/2026-08-05/WWU</a>= </div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">= On Sun, Aug 2, 2026, 7:53=E2=80=AFp.m. James Heilman <<a href=3D"mailto:= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a>= > wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 = 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I= t is being brought up that the WMF has <a href=3D"https://www.nlrb.gov/case= /20-RC-391740" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">brought on t= he law firm Littler Mendelson</a>=C2=A0for this case, which has been noted = to have a history of trying to avoid unionization for their corporate=C2=A0= clients.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>For example this Wired piece=C2=A0s= ays =E2=80=9C<a href=3D"https://www.wired.com/story/apples-union-busting-ca= mpaign-caused-a-bad-fallout/" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan= k">When you hire Littler Mendelson, it=E2=80=99s an indication that you=E2= =80=99re prepared to do whatever is necessary to defeat the union campaign= ,=E2=80=9D says Logan. =E2=80=9CThat you=E2=80=99re prepared to play hardb= all.</a>=E2=80=9D </div><div><br></div><div>If the WMF just wants to make sure staff have the= ability to decide independently, choosing this law firm may not have been = the best choice.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Do we have estimates on tim= elines and costs? Best</div><div>James</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q= uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 12:04= =E2=80=AFPM James Heilman <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"no= referrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br><= /div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo= rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Tha= nks Jimbo, that makes complete sense and also=C2=A0based on that=C2=A0agree= a secret vote is best :-)<div><br></div><div>J</div></div><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 29, 2026= at 5:41=E2=80=AFPM Jimmy Wales <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&g= t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p= x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><= div style=3D"font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-se= rif;font-size:13px"><div></div> <div><br></div><div><br></div> =20 </div><div id=3D"m_-5163914036502873501m_7491829695751365481m_-5089= 235156523947744m_-3753173181163127838ydpc388f99yahoo_quoted_6101675827"> <div style=3D"font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,= Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> =20 <div>>But Mike if we already have a "supermajority = of the workers already did vote by signing a card"... why is additiona= l process required for processes sake? How is >this not a waste of time,= energy, and money to result at an already clear outcome?</div><div><div id= =3D"m_-5163914036502873501m_7491829695751365481m_-5089235156523947744m_-375= 3173181163127838ydpc388f99yiv5831847797"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br clear=3D= "none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi James, this was a question that I had as w= ell, and so I looked into it and thought about it.=C2=A0 One of the problem= s with the process so far is that it was<br>not secret and we have heard fr= om some staff members that they felt pressured because the organizers would= know how they decided.=C2=A0 That isn't a great process and it goes ag= ainst our movement's values quite badly to have people in a situation w= here they are pressured into something one way or the other.<br><br>It'= s pretty easy to see the problem if we imagine it in the other direction - = imagine some company asking staff to sign pledge cards not to join a union,= and keeping track of who did or didn't in order to put pressure on tho= se who didn't.=C2=A0 Gross.=C2=A0 It doesn't make it better for it = to be the other way around in my own personal view.<br><br>I want a process= where staff are safe to deliberate in the privacy of their own minds and m= ake the decision based on all the available evidence that makes the most se= nse to them.=C2=A0 So I don't think insisting on a proper vote is proce= ss for the sake of process and I say that with my own estimate that the sta= ff will vote to support unionization.=C2=A0 I think we'll be in a bette= r place if it's really clear - a clean and clear choice with no chance = of pressure.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">In terms of t= ime, energy, and money - I don't think it should take very long and aga= in speaking only for myself I hope we get it done as quickly and efficientl= y as we can and I hope that everyone - staff, management, board, and commun= ity can come together to celebrate the outcome.=C2=A0 I know I will.</div><= div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">--Jimbo</div></div></div></div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><div><b= r></div><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"lt= r" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div di= r=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">James Heilman<br>MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian</div></= div></div></div></div></div> </blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><div><br></div><span class= =3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_s= ignature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir= =3D"ltr">James Heilman<br>MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian</div></div></div></div></= div></div> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div> --0000000000005a420b0658345c22-- --===============9036934641313195622== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/NONO7BI7IGNIX43YUOOXBU4B67GOEYI6/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org --===============9036934641313195622==--