[Foundation-l] Re: Wikipedia trademark registration in Germany

Michael Snow <[email protected]> Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:39:12 -0700
Newsgroups gmane.org.wikimedia.legal,gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Elisabeth Bauer wrote:

>Michael Snow wrote:
>
>> Well, nothing in the classes of goods covered by this trademark=20
>> application should keep us from being able to register our own=20
>> trademark. So this seems to be more a minor nuisance, rather than a=20
>> fraudulent registration we would *need* to get overturned promptly.
>
>I agree. To register the trademark for our own "business" (online &=20
>print publications, CD-editions) is much more urgent. If someone catches=
=20
>these fields before us, we _really_ have a problem.
>
Is anybody monitoring this, in case somebody does try to register one of=20
our trademarks? I'm only familiar with the US Patent & Trademark Office,=20
which allows you to search online for pending and registered marks. I=20
haven't tried to check for competing registrations in other countries.

Wacht irgendjemand darauf, falls jemand zuk=FCnftig versucht, noch eine=20
von unseren Marken einzutragen?

>> It still would have been nice to make a timely objection, but at=20
>> least this J=F6rg Nagel isn't blatantly infringing our trademark. It=20
>> does make it difficult if we want to distribute Wikipedia-related=20
>> merchandise in Germany, though.
>
>A colleague of mine who is a lawyer told me that even this would not
>necessarily constitute a problem. We would not be allowed to found a
>T-Shirt company "Wikipedia sports wear", but in his opinion (why do
>lawyers always have "opinions")
>
In my opinion, it's because when lawyers explain the law to people, they=20
often keep in mind that in spite of their professional training, lawyers=20
do not get to decide what the law *is*. Definitive interpretation=20
generally belongs to the courts. So this formulation is common in the=20
profession due to a variety of motivations (trying to be precise, not=20
wanting to be proved wrong, avoiding liability for malpractice, etc.).=20
But this is all just my opinion.

>this trade mark doesn't prevent us from producing t-shirts and other mer=
chandise with the wikipedia logo and
>name on it.
>
Maybe or  maybe not, depending on the details of German trademark law,=20
so I'll defer to people with more expertise on that. But even if this=20
was ultimately legal to do, I have to assume the similarity to Nagel's=20
trademark would make it more difficult for us if he raised objections.

>> I'd be a little surprised if he intends to start a Wikipedia brand of
>> clothing on his own. Was this application triggered by some of our
>> German publicity, I wonder? Just some random thoughts.
>
>Seems so - the application was just one week after the big media echo.
>
Genau das hatte ich bemerkt.

--Michael Schnee

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Elisabeth Bauer wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
  <pre>Michael Snow wrote:

&gt;<i> Well, nothing in the classes of goods covered by this trademark 
</i>&gt;<i> application should keep us from being able to register our own 
</i>&gt;<i> trademark. So this seems to be more a minor nuisance, rather than a 
</i>&gt;<i> fraudulent registration we would *need* to get overturned promptly.
</i>
I agree. To register the trademark for our own "business" (online &amp; 
print publications, CD-editions) is much more urgent. If someone catches 
these fields before us, we _really_ have a problem.</pre>
</blockquote>
Is anybody monitoring this, in case somebody does try to register one
of our trademarks? I'm only familiar with the US Patent &amp; Trademark
Office, which allows you to search online for pending and registered
marks. I haven't tried to check for competing registrations in other
countries.<br>
<br>
Wacht irgendjemand darauf, falls jemand zuk&uuml;nftig versucht, noch eine
von unseren Marken einzutragen?<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
  <pre>&gt;<i> It still would have been nice to make a timely objection, but at 
</i>&gt;<i> least this J&ouml;rg Nagel isn't blatantly infringing our trademark. It 
</i>&gt;<i> does make it difficult if we want to distribute Wikipedia-related 
</i>&gt;<i> merchandise in Germany, though.
</i>
A colleague of mine who is a lawyer told me that even this would not
necessarily constitute a problem. We would not be allowed to found a
T-Shirt company "Wikipedia sports wear", but in his opinion (why do
lawyers always have "opinions")</pre>
</blockquote>
In my opinion, it's because when lawyers explain the law to people,
they often keep in mind that in spite of their professional training,
lawyers do not get to decide what the law *is*. Definitive
interpretation generally belongs to the courts. So this formulation is
common in the profession due to a variety of motivations (trying to be
precise, not wanting to be proved wrong, avoiding liability for
malpractice, etc.). But this is all just my opinion.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
  <pre>this trade mark doesn't prevent us from producing t-shirts and other merchandise with the wikipedia logo and
name on it.</pre>
</blockquote>
Maybe or&nbsp; maybe not, depending on the details of German trademark law,
so I'll defer to people with more expertise on that. But even if this
was ultimately legal to do, I have to assume the similarity to Nagel's
trademark would make it more difficult for us if he raised objections.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
  <pre>&gt;<i> I'd be a little surprised if he intends to start a Wikipedia brand of
</i>&gt;<i> clothing on his own. Was this application triggered by some of our
</i>&gt;<i> German publicity, I wonder? Just some random thoughts.
</i>
Seems so - the application was just one week after the big media echo.</pre>
</blockquote>
Genau das hatte ich bemerkt.<br>
<br>
--Michael Schnee<br>
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