Re: Logo discussion

>I disagree that the logo is necessarily a limiting factor on the
>development and progression of Wikibooks as a project, but I would have
>to agree that the current logo is clearly dated and does need to be
>updated to something a little more polished beyond the rough idea that
>Wikibookians came up with nearly four years ago.  And the current
>"slogan" is also in dire need of improvement.

I'm just thinking about a PR standpoint. It's going to be easier for "real" 
organizations to take our project seriously if we have a professional look 
to us. This requires a good logo, a good slogan, and some kind of indication 
that we aren't a rag-tag group of internet losers. I think that we carry 
ourselves very well, but if our logos and slogans and all are trashy, our 
project is going to look like trash by extension. That's been my primary 
motivation behind redesigning the main page, or redesigning the staff 
lounge, or making all sorts of other aesthetic improvements.

>What it really needs right now is for somebody to take on this issue and
>set up the "voting" pages somewhere neutral that would also strongly
>involve Wikibookians on all of the various language editions of
>Wikibooks, not just en.wikibooks.

I'm not against doing that kind of thing. I'm busy myself in the next few 
days, but if nobody steps up to this plate, I will.

>Rather than trying to get WMF involvement in the logo selection, we
>should try to find out what went wrong with the logo selection process
>and try to fix those problems for the next round, if we want to go
>there.

I'm pretty convinced that "what went wrong" was the WMF enforcing new 
stipulations after the voting was already over. They had a logo all picked 
out and voted on, and then the WMF told us that the colors were wrong.

>One of the major complaints regarding the logo selection process on the
>last round was that the active Wikibookians involved with content
>development were largely not involved with the logo selection on Meta.

This is the fault of the wikibookians, not with those who were voting on the 
discussion. We posted notices, on the site notice, on the main page (when 
the site notice was hijacked for Wikimania and fundraising messages), and I 
personally posted it on the staff lounge more then once. If wikibookians 
were not part of the discussion, it's because they chose not to participate. 
We can't complain if people are given the opportunity, and choose not to 
take it. What I can't speak for, however, are the other languages, I dont 
know how well the logo discussion was advertised to speakers of other 
languages.

>I would like
>to hear from others on this list in regards to this point, and is it at
>least possible that potential logos weren't selected because a block of
>individuals indifferent to Wikibooks were involved in its selection?

I don't think that we should cast non-wikibookians as second-class citizens 
when making votes. All wikimedians want our project to succeed, and all 
wikimedians have to look at our lousy logo on the main pages of the other 
projects. Like I said before, the process would have succeeded if a 
last-minute color change stipulation wasn't made: A logo had already been 
selected.

>Something else that perhaps ought to be looked at is the selection
>process of the logo itself.

Again, Something that I will look at personally, if nobody beats me to it.

>Perhaps even other ideas like a logo selection committee or even
>something more off the wall could be considered instead.... although I
>do think a fiat decision by the WMF board would be a very bad idea.

I'm not asking for a fiat decision, just a hand up out of the hole that 
we've been dug into.  Maybe what we need is some kind of impetus: the WMF 
could set some kind of "deadline", even if it was a soft one, and that would 
motivate people to get off their asses and get the job done. Or, the WMF 
could say "we have selected a logo, we want to change the colors. Vote on 
the new colors, and the winner is the new logo of Wikibooks". Even if the 
board never follows up on these statements, it will serve as the motivation 
the community needs to finish this mess up.

--Andrew Whitworth

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