Re: Build error for python27 1:2.7.18-4
David Neuhaus - MRC LMB <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | gmane.os.apple.fink.beginners |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This problem is now solved. I deleted the whole CommandLineTools folder, then reinstalled using the command sudo xcode-select --install This gave me completely the wrong Command Line Tools version (10.3.0.0.1.1562985497). I then re-installed using the previously downloaded installer for version 11.3.1 (but this time without first deleting the CommandLineTools folder), which re-instated version 11.3.1.0.1.1576735732. However, something was evidently different in the re-instated Command Line Tools, as now compilation of python27 2.7.18-4 succeeds. I do not understand this, but the problem is solved; last lines of terminal output appear below: Removing runtime build-lock... Removing build-lock package... /sw/bin/dpkg-lockwait -r fink-buildlock-python27-2.7.18-4 (Reading database ... 277056 files and directories currently installed.) Removing fink-buildlock-python27-2.7.18-4 ... Reading buildlock packages... /sw/bin/dpkg-lockwait -i /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-x86_64/languages/python27_2.7.18-4_darwin-x86_64.deb /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-x86_64/languages/python27-shlibs_2.7.18-4_darwin-x86_64.deb (Reading database ... 277055 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace python27 1:2.7.18-2 (using .../python27_2.7.18-4_darwin-x86_64.deb) ... Unpacking replacement python27 ... Preparing to replace python27-shlibs 1:2.7.18-2 (using .../python27-shlibs_2.7.18-4_darwin-x86_64.deb) ... Unpacking replacement python27-shlibs ... Setting up python27-shlibs (2.7.18-4) ... Setting up python27 (2.7.18-4) ... Updating the list of locally available binary packages. Scanning dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-x86_64 New package: dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-x86_64/languages/python27-shlibs_2.7.18-4_darwin-x86_64.deb New package: dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-x86_64/languages/python27_2.7.18-4_darwin-x86_64.deb New package: dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-x86_64/languages/python_2.7.18-4_darwin-x86_64.deb On 24/08/2021, 12:22, "David Neuhaus - MRC LMB" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello, I am getting consistent build failures for python27 and python27-shlibs since the 1:2.7.18-4 update on my iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017; 4.2 GHz Intel Core i7) running OSX 10.14.6, fink 0.45.3 and Fink Commander 0.5.5; I currently still have python27 version 1:2.7.18-2 installed and working. From the terminal output (in Fink Commander, copied below) it seems the error occurs while building the _scproxy extension and is due to something unexpected in a file within CommandLineTools. My CommandLineTools version is: $ pkgutil --pkg-info=com.apple.pkg.CLTools_Executables package-id: com.apple.pkg.CLTools_Executables version: 11.3.1.0.1.1576735732 and my Xtools version is: $ xcodebuild -version Xcode 11.3.1 Build version 11C505 I also have an install on my Mac laptop which has a near identical setup, and this has updated to python27 1:2.7.18-4 without error; I do not understand why the two systems are behaving differently. The file that seems to be associated with the error (see terminal output) is: /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX10.14.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Security.framework/Headers/CMSDecoder.h This file does indeed differ between the two installations (e.g. only the file on the iMac contains the string '__OSX_AVAILABLE_BUT_DEPRECATED_MSG'), which presumably is why only the iMac has the error, yet when I re-install command line tools using precisely the same installer as used on the laptop (copied over), the file differences in CMSDecoder.h remain unaffected and the error on the iMac is not cured. The OSX, fink, CommandLineTools and Xcode versions on my laptop are identical to those on the iMac, with the sole exception that on the laptop (where there is no build error for python27) the XCode build version is 11C504. I am an end user (structural biologist) not a programmer so I do not know what lies behind any of these errors. Any help gratefully received! David Neuhaus. Last part of terminal output from Fink Commander session: building '_multiprocessing' extension creating build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_multiprocessing gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -IModules/_multiprocessing -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_multiprocessing/multiprocessing.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_multiprocessing/multiprocessing.o gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -IModules/_multiprocessing -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_multiprocessing/socket_connection.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_multiprocessing/socket_connection.o gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -IModules/_multiprocessing -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_multiprocessing/semaphore.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_multiprocessing/semaphore.o gcc -L/sw/lib -bundle /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/libpython2.7.dylib -L/sw/lib -L/sw/lib -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_multiprocessing/multiprocessing.o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_multiprocessing/socket_connection.o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_multiprocessing/semaphore.o -L/sw/lib -L. -o build/lib.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/_multiprocessing.so building '_scproxy' extension creating build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/Mac creating build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/Mac/Modules gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c ./Mac/Modules/_scproxy.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/./Mac/Modules/_scproxy.o In file included from ./Mac/Modules/_scproxy.c:6: In file included from /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX10.14.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/SystemConfiguration.framework/Headers/SystemConfiguration.h:126: In file included from /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX10.14.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/SystemConfiguration.framework/Headers/SCPreferences.h:35: In file included from /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX10.14.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Security.framework/Headers/Security.h:98: /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX10.14.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Security.framework/Headers/CMSDecoder.h:130:5: error: expected function body after function declarator __OSX_AVAILABLE_BUT_DEPRECATED_MSG(__MAC_10_5, __MAC_10_13, __IPHONE_NA, __IPHONE_NA, ^ /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include/Availability.h:291:57: note: expanded from macro '__OSX_AVAILABLE_BUT_DEPRECATED_MSG' __AVAILABILITY_INTERNAL##_osxIntro##_DEP##_osxDep##_MSG(_msg) ^ <scratch space>:73:1: note: expanded from here __AVAILABILITY_INTERNAL__MAC_10_5_DEP__MAC_10_13_MSG ^ ./Mac/Modules/_scproxy.c:67:10: warning: comparison of address of 'kSCPropNetProxiesExcludeSimpleHostnames' not equal to a null pointer is always true [-Wtautological-pointer-compare] if (&kSCPropNetProxiesExcludeSimpleHostnames != NULL) { ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX10.14.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/SystemConfiguration.framework/Headers/SCSchemaDefinitions.h:1989:49: note: expanded from macro 'kSCPropNetProxiesExcludeSimpleHostnames' #define kSCPropNetProxiesExcludeSimpleHostnames kSCPropNetProxiesExcludeSimpleHostnames ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1 warning and 1 error generated. building '_tkinter' extension gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -DWITH_APPINIT=1 -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_tkinter.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_tkinter.o -I/sw/include -I/opt/X11/include gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -DWITH_APPINIT=1 -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/tkappinit.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/tkappinit.o -I/sw/include -I/opt/X11/include gcc -L/sw/lib -bundle /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/libpython2.7.dylib -L/sw/lib -L/sw/lib -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_tkinter.o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/tkappinit.o -L/sw/lib -L. -o build/lib.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/_tkinter.so -L/sw/lib -ltcl -ltk building '_ctypes' extension creating build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/darwin gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I_ctypes/darwin -I/sw/include -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/_ctypes.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/_ctypes.o -DMACOSX gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I_ctypes/darwin -I/sw/include -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/callbacks.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/callbacks.o -DMACOSX gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I_ctypes/darwin -I/sw/include -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/callproc.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/callproc.o -DMACOSX gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I_ctypes/darwin -I/sw/include -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/stgdict.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/stgdict.o -DMACOSX gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I_ctypes/darwin -I/sw/include -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/cfield.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/cfield.o -DMACOSX gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I_ctypes/darwin -I/sw/include -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/malloc_closure.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/malloc_closure.o -DMACOSX gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I_ctypes/darwin -I/sw/include -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Include -I/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18 -c /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/darwin/dlfcn_simple.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/darwin/dlfcn_simple.o -DMACOSX gcc -L/sw/lib -bundle /sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/libpython2.7.dylib -L/sw/lib -L/sw/lib -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-nullability-completeness -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -IInclude -I./Include -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/ncursesw -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.15.sdk/usr/include build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/_ctypes.o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/callbacks.o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/callproc.o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/stgdict.o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/cfield.o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/malloc_closure.o build/temp.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/sw/src/fink.build/python27-2.7.18-4/Python-2.7.18/Modules/_ctypes/darwin/dlfcn_simple.o -L/sw/lib -L. -lffi -ldl -o build/lib.macosx-10.14-x86_64-2.7/_ctypes.so Python build finished, but the necessary bits to build these modules were not found: bsddb185 dl imageop linuxaudiodev ossaudiodev spwd sunaudiodev To find the necessary bits, look in setup.py in detect_modules() for the module's name. (Fink package build should have 7 missing) Failed to build these modules: _scproxy make: *** [sharedmods] Error 1 ### execution of /tmp/fink.ws2qT failed, exit code 2 ### execution of /tmp/fink.3PsHj failed, exit code 2 Removing runtime build-lock... Removing build-lock package... /sw/bin/dpkg-lockwait -r fink-buildlock-python27-2.7.18-4 (Reading database ... 277056 files and directories currently installed.) Removing fink-buildlock-python27-2.7.18-4 ... Failed: phase compiling: python27-2.7.18-4 failed Before reporting any errors, please run "fink selfupdate" and try again. Also try using "fink configure" to set your maximum build jobs to 1 and attempt to build the package again. If you continue to have issues, please check to see if the FAQ on Fink's website solves the problem. If not, ask on one (not both, please) of these mailing lists: The Fink Users List <mailto:[email protected]> The Fink Beginners List <mailto:[email protected]>, with a carbon copy to the maintainer: Daniel Johnson <mailto:[email protected]> Note that this is preferable to emailing just the maintainer directly, since most fink package maintainers do not have access to all possible hardware and software configurations. Please try to include the complete error message in your report. This generally consists of a compiler line starting with e.g. "gcc" or "g++" followed by the actual error output from the compiler. Also include the following system information: Package manager version: 0.45.3 Distribution version: selfupdate-rsync Tue Aug 24 11:16:15 2021, 10.14.5, x86_64 Trees: local/main stable/main Xcode.app: 11.3.1 Xcode command-line tools: 11.3.1.0.1.1576735732 Max. Fink build jobs: 8 _______________________________________________ Fink-beginners mailing list [email protected] List archive: https://sourceforge.net/p/fink/mailman/fink-users/ Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-beginners _______________________________________________ Fink-beginners mailing list [email protected] List archive: https://sourceforge.net/p/fink/mailman/fink-users/ Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-beginners