Re: upgrade process for big sur/dpkg1.16

Justin Hallett <[email protected]> Fri, 28 Aug 2020 13:23:48 -0600
Newsgroups gmane.os.apple.fink.core
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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It will work, new debs won=E2=80=99t work with old dpkg but there is a =
dpkg pre-depends injected into them

The difference is triggers, and some of the la processing.  Current fink =
breaks debsums (and Debian rules) as it changes the la files after =
install, this changes the md5sum and thus breaks debsums to check for =
changed files.

The new dpkg deals with it before, and uses triggers from the fink =
packages to do other than that used to be injected into postinst script.

Older dpkg will just ignore fields is doesn=E2=80=99t know like =
pre-depends and triggers.  But a deb built with the dplg1.16 branch and =
the someone built with master won=E2=80=99t be the same deb which breaks =
fink policy.  Most of the changes and differences are all in the la =
files and the Debian control directory.  So the binaries and libs will =
be the same.

In summary there is no danger I made sure of it.  But fink policy needs =
to be amended if we want to allow upgrades.
---
TS
http://www.southofheaven.org/
Life begins and ends with chaos, live between the chaos!

> On Aug 28, 2020, at 1:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> Will old debs work with the new dpkg? Or is the deb compatibility =
broken in both directions?
>=20
> If we're going to need a new tree (called "11.0"?), what distributions =
should we put into it? Obviously macOS 11.0. Should we also put 10.14.5 =
and 10.15 into it? These two share the same /usr/bin/perl (v5.18.4), but =
it's different from 11.0 (v5.28.2). However, 11.0 has =
/usr/bin/perl5.18(.4) as well. Is it worth (possible?) going down to =
earlier system versions? 10.10-10.14 share the same system-perl (5.18.2)
>=20
> Hanspeter
>=20
> On 2020-08-28 11:13, Justin Hallett wrote:
>> I=E2=80=99m almost positive all the packages are compare (texinfo =
might have
>> an extra split) but you can not put dpkg into the 10.5 tree since
>> it=E2=80=99ll break deb compat.  This branch needs a new tree then it =
can be
>> added.
>> ---
>> TS
>> http://www.southofheaven.org/
>> Life begins and ends with chaos, live between the chaos!
>>> On Aug 28, 2020, at 9:59 AM, Alexander Hansen
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Aug 28, 2020, at 02:42, Hanspeter Niederstrasser
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> What's the upgrade process for the dpkg1.16 branch and the dists
>>>> tree?
>>>> Several packages are now essential (e.g. time-date-pm and xz) and
>>>> will have to be moved from their present subfolders in dists to
>>>> 'base'. Also, some base packages have newer versions than what's
>>>> in the dpkg1.16 branch source (e.g. libiconv and texinfo). But the
>>>> dpkg1.16 branch versions have needed changes that might be
>>>> incompatible with older fink installs, so we can't just copy
>>>> what's currently in dist to the dpkg1.16 branch, or push the
>>>> dpkg1.16 branch versions directly into dists. Or are dpkg1.16
>>>> packages compatible with legacy dpkg?
>>>> Hanspeter
>>> At minimum, the most logical thing to do would be to update
>>> libiconv, texinfo, et. al. in the dpkg1.16 branch and also apply the
>>> branch-specific changes - i.e. merge them in a logical sense if not
>>> in a Git sense.  I hate to say it, but this might be a case for a
>>> new distro and clean reinstall rather than update in place.  I know
>>> we just did that for Catalina, but my impression is that Big Sur is
>>> going to change a bunch of stuff.
>>> --
>>> Alexander Hansen, Ph.D.
>>> Fink User Liaison
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fink-core mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> List archive:
>>> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.core
>>> Subscription management:
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-core
>> _______________________________________________
>> fink-core mailing list
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">It =
will work, new debs won=E2=80=99t work with old dpkg but there is a dpkg =
pre-depends injected into them<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">The difference is triggers, and some of the la processing. =
&nbsp;Current fink breaks debsums (and Debian rules) as it changes the =
la files after install, this changes the md5sum and thus breaks debsums =
to check for changed files.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
 class=3D"">The new dpkg deals with it before, and uses triggers from =
the fink packages to do other than that used to be injected into =
postinst script.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Older dpkg will just ignore fields is doesn=E2=80=99t know =
like pre-depends and triggers. &nbsp;But a deb built with the dplg1.16 =
branch and the someone built with master won=E2=80=99t be the same deb =
which breaks fink policy. &nbsp;Most of the changes and differences are =
all in the la files and the Debian control directory. &nbsp;So the =
binaries and libs will be the same.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">In summary there is no danger I made =
sure of it. &nbsp;But fink policy needs to be amended if we want to =
allow upgrades.<br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;  font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; " class=3D""><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; " class=3D"">---</p><p =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; " =
class=3D"">TS</p><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Helvetica; " class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.southofheaven.org/" =
class=3D"">http://www.southofheaven.org/</a></p><p style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: =
normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; " class=3D""><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#0000EE"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"text-decoration: underline; =
"></span></font></p><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Helvetica; " class=3D"">Life begins and ends with chaos, =
live between the chaos!</p>
</div>
</span></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">On Aug 28, 2020, at 1:17 PM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" =
class=3D"">[email protected]</a> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Will =
old debs work with the new dpkg? Or is the deb compatibility broken in =
both directions?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If we're going to need a =
new tree (called "11.0"?), what distributions should we put into it? =
Obviously macOS 11.0. Should we also put 10.14.5 and 10.15 into it? =
These two share the same /usr/bin/perl (v5.18.4), but it's different =
from 11.0 (v5.28.2). However, 11.0 has /usr/bin/perl5.18(.4) as well. Is =
it worth (possible?) going down to earlier system versions? 10.10-10.14 =
share the same system-perl (5.18.2)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Hanspeter<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On 2020-08-28 11:13, =
Justin Hallett wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m almost positive all the packages are compare =
(texinfo might have<br class=3D"">an extra split) but you can not put =
dpkg into the 10.5 tree since<br class=3D"">it=E2=80=99ll break deb =
compat. &nbsp;This branch needs a new tree then it can be<br =
class=3D"">added.<br class=3D"">---<br class=3D"">TS<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.southofheaven.org/" =
class=3D"">http://www.southofheaven.org/</a><br class=3D"">Life begins =
and ends with chaos, live between the chaos!<br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On Aug 28, 2020, at 9:59 AM, Alexander =
Hansen<br class=3D"">&lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On Aug 28, 2020, at =
02:42, Hanspeter Niederstrasser<br =
class=3D"">&lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">What's =
the upgrade process for the dpkg1.16 branch and the dists<br =
class=3D"">tree?<br class=3D"">Several packages are now essential (e.g. =
time-date-pm and xz) and<br class=3D"">will have to be moved from their =
present subfolders in dists to<br class=3D"">'base'. Also, some base =
packages have newer versions than what's<br class=3D"">in the dpkg1.16 =
branch source (e.g. libiconv and texinfo). But the<br class=3D"">dpkg1.16 =
branch versions have needed changes that might be<br =
class=3D"">incompatible with older fink installs, so we can't just =
copy<br class=3D"">what's currently in dist to the dpkg1.16 branch, or =
push the<br class=3D"">dpkg1.16 branch versions directly into dists. Or =
are dpkg1.16<br class=3D"">packages compatible with legacy dpkg?<br =
class=3D"">Hanspeter<br class=3D""></blockquote>At minimum, the most =
logical thing to do would be to update<br class=3D"">libiconv, texinfo, =
et. al. in the dpkg1.16 branch and also apply the<br =
class=3D"">branch-specific changes - i.e. merge them in a logical sense =
if not<br class=3D"">in a Git sense. &nbsp;I hate to say it, but this =
might be a case for a<br class=3D"">new distro and clean reinstall =
rather than update in place. &nbsp;I know<br class=3D"">we just did that =
for Catalina, but my impression is that Big Sur is<br class=3D"">going =
to change a bunch of stuff.<br class=3D"">--<br class=3D"">Alexander =
Hansen, Ph.D.<br class=3D"">Fink User Liaison<br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">fink-core mailing list<br =
class=3D"">[email protected]<br class=3D"">List =
archive:<br class=3D"">http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.core<br =
class=3D"">Subscription management:<br =
class=3D"">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-core<br =
class=3D""></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br=
 class=3D"">fink-core mailing list<br =
class=3D"">[email protected]<br class=3D"">List =
archive:<br class=3D"">http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.core<br =
class=3D"">Subscription management:<br =
class=3D"">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-core<br =
class=3D""></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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