Re: lpd: the thin edge of the wedge?
Garance A Drosehn <[email protected]> Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:24:47 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.os.freebsd.architechture |
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| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 3156 and 4880). --=_MailMate_1B1F9872-A58A-4C86-B9A6-F251725CE4C5_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_181DE090-98A2-49A9-9049-D6515C038941_=" --=_MailMate_181DE090-98A2-49A9-9049-D6515C038941_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4 Mar 2026, at 13:20, Garance A Drosehn wrote: > On 23 Feb 2026, at 21:43, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > >> I'm really quite concerned about the plans to remove lpd. I >> understand that there are security issues with lpd, even if I haven't >> heard any reports of exploits in over a third of a century, but the >> approach seems wrong to me. If we follow this direction, we can pare >> down FreeBSD to a bare minimum (the kernel and what else?). >> >> So what should be done? I'm explicitly copying core@ on this, though >> I assume that you have all been following things. But this is a basic= >> issue for the project, so core@ (and not srcmgr@) should have a >> position on this. >> >> I understand that des no longer feels interested in maintaining lpd or= >> fixing its apparently numerous bugs. But there are alternatives: >> >> 1. Find somebody who *is* interested. I haven't seen anything on the= >> mailing lists asking for this. Why not? >> >> 2. Take the corresponding code from another BSD, like we have done in= >> the past. des tells us, without details, that the OpenBSD code >> has the same bugs. I've asked numerous times, but nobody has told= >> me whether they have spoken with the OpenBSD project about it. >> And what about NetBSD or DragonflyBSD? >> >> 3. Make it a shared project amongst BSDs, like make(1). > > Hmm. I seem to be out of some loop here. > > First let me apologize for not following much of anything in FreeBSD in= the past 2-3 weeks. We (RPI) had a major screwup with our VM cluster a = few weeks ago, which triggered an abrupt reboot of many of our virtual ma= chines, required a reboot of > all our virtual machines to alleviate some [urgent] dangers, and is now= requiring > a second reboot of all our virtual machines because the first fix was i= ncomplete > so we now need to fix the fix. Well, we (at RPI) have made it through the second set of reboots successf= ully, so now I can at least catch up on some of what's been happening. W= ell really all that I've read is some of this thread, because I also need= to catch up on my sleep. People with good memories might remember that when I got my commit bit ma= ny years ago, it was for fixing things in `lpr`/`lpd`. I then branched o= ut into a few other parts of the base system, but in the past ten years I= haven't done much of anything on those other parts. But I did still lik= e the idea of working on `lpr`/`lpd`. I disconnected from the other part= s of the system, but still kept my eye on `lpr`/`lpd`. Back in January Warner sent me an email saying *"It's been several years = since you've committed to lpr/lpd. Is that still something you're=C2=A0in= terested flagging=C2=A0for review in MAINTAINERS?".* I appreciate him re= aching out like that, even if he was only trying to see if I was still al= ive. :) I replied *"Yes, at least for now. Thanks."* I expected to get= some `lpd`-related emails after that, but have not seen any. I realize = that it could be that some were sent and I missed them. While I don't track developer emails anywhere near as much as I should, I= do still scan email subjects for `lpd`. Following Warner's email, the f= irst email I've seen with that in the subject was the one which started t= his thread. Well, technically it was the one from Phabricator for *"D295= 66: lpd: Add -F flag to prevent daemonizing"*, which puzzled me because I= thought that change was already committed. But I read that email about = 2 minutes before I read the first message in this thread. (aside: I am also on some OpeBSD mailing lists, mainly just so I could fo= llow `lpd`/`lpr` posts in the land of OpenBSD. While there have been a f= ew changes there, none of them seemed particularly urgent.) I'll admit that right now I'm of two minds on this. Part of me wants to = point to all the commits that I have made to `lpr`/`lpd` and say *"What t= he hell guys? If there's a problem then why didn't anyone contact me?"*.= However, part of me looks at the fact that I'm old and tired, and that = I haven't read much of **any** FreeBSD-related email in a few weeks, and = I wonder if maybe it's time for me to hang up the old commit bit. I see that DES has committed several changes very recently, but I haven't= looked through them yet. Somewhere in this thread DES claims he's done = more for `lpd` than anyone else in the last 25 years. I'm sure that's tr= ue if we measured the last 15 years, but I really doubt it's true for the= last 25 years. And in the last 15 years I haven't seen much of any inte= rest in `lpr`/`lpd` from anyone on any FreeBSD mailing list. Feeding into my ambivalence is that my full-time job has been painfully b= usy for a few years, as RPI keeps trying to get by with less than half of= the IT staff that it really needs. So right now I'm torn between quitti= ng FreeBSD versus quitting my job at RPI (well, "retiring" more than "qui= tting". Yes, I'm that old...). > Also, I went to do a minor macOS upgrade on my main PGP-capable mac las= t week, and instead that mac was upgraded two major versions of macOS. W= hen I went to post this, I find that PGP isn't working for me anymore. I= don't use PGP much, but I know it was working fine back in the end of Ja= nuary. But you can trust it's me. Who else would willingly *want* to ad= mit that they have something to do with `lpd`? I think I've fixed the issues with PGP email. If you see this paragraph,= than I have! -- = Garance Alistair Drosehn =3D [email protected] Lead Developer @rpi and [email protected] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA --=_MailMate_181DE090-98A2-49A9-9049-D6515C038941_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/xhtml; charset=3Dutf-8"= > </head> <body><div style=3D"font-family: sans-serif;"><div class=3D"markdown" sty= le=3D"white-space: normal;"> <p dir=3D"auto">On 4 Mar 2026, at 13:20, Garance A Drosehn wrote:</p> <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 5px; padding-left: 5px; border-left: 2px= solid #777777; color: #777777;"> <p dir=3D"auto">On 23 Feb 2026, at 21:43, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:</p> <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 5px; padding-left: 5px; border-left: 2px= solid #777777; border-left-color: #999999; color: #999999;"> <p dir=3D"auto">I'm really quite concerned about the plans to remove lpd.= I<br> understand that there are security issues with lpd, even if I haven't<br>= heard any reports of exploits in over a third of a century, but the<br> approach seems wrong to me. If we follow this direction, we can pare<br>= down FreeBSD to a bare minimum (the kernel and what else?).</p> <p dir=3D"auto">So what should be done? I'm explicitly copying core@ on = this, though<br> I assume that you have all been following things. But this is a basic<br= > issue for the project, so core@ (and not srcmgr@) should have a<br> position on this.</p> <p dir=3D"auto">I understand that des no longer feels interested in maint= aining lpd or<br> fixing its apparently numerous bugs. But there are alternatives:</p> <ol> <li> <p dir=3D"auto">Find somebody who <em>is</em> interested. I haven't seen= anything on the<br> mailing lists asking for this. Why not?</p> </li> <li> <p dir=3D"auto">Take the corresponding code from another BSD, like we hav= e done in<br> the past. des tells us, without details, that the OpenBSD code<br> has the same bugs. I've asked numerous times, but nobody has told<br> me whether they have spoken with the OpenBSD project about it.<br> And what about NetBSD or DragonflyBSD?</p> </li> <li> <p dir=3D"auto">Make it a shared project amongst BSDs, like make(1).</p> </li> </ol> </blockquote> <p dir=3D"auto">Hmm. I seem to be out of some loop here.</p> <p dir=3D"auto">First let me apologize for not following much of anything= in FreeBSD in the past 2-3 weeks. We (RPI) had a major screwup with our= VM cluster a few weeks ago, which triggered an abrupt reboot of many of = our virtual machines, required a reboot of<br> all our virtual machines to alleviate some [urgent] dangers, and is now r= equiring<br> a second reboot of all our virtual machines because the first fix was inc= omplete<br> so we now need to fix the fix.</p> </blockquote> <p dir=3D"auto">Well, we (at RPI) have made it through the second set of = reboots successfully, so now I can at least catch up on some of what's be= en happening. Well really all that I've read is some of this thread, bec= ause I also need to catch up on my sleep.</p> <p dir=3D"auto">People with good memories might remember that when I got = my commit bit many years ago, it was for fixing things in <code style=3D"= margin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-radius: 3px; background-color: #F7= F7F7;">lpr</code>/<code style=3D"margin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-r= adius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7;">lpd</code>. I then branched out = into a few other parts of the base system, but in the past ten years I ha= ven't done much of anything on those other parts. But I did still like t= he idea of working on <code style=3D"margin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; bord= er-radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7;">lpr</code>/<code style=3D"mar= gin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F= 7;">lpd</code>. I disconnected from the other parts of the system, but s= till kept my eye on <code style=3D"margin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border= -radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7;">lpr</code>/<code style=3D"margi= n: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7;= ">lpd</code>.</p> <p dir=3D"auto">Back in January Warner sent me an email saying <em>"= It's been several years since you've committed to lpr/lpd. Is that still = something you're=C2=A0interested flagging=C2=A0for review in MAINTAINERS?= ".</em> I appreciate him reaching out like that, even if he was onl= y trying to see if I was still alive. :) I replied <em>"Yes, at le= ast for now. Thanks."</em> I expected to get some <code style=3D"ma= rgin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7= F7;">lpd</code>-related emails after that, but have not seen any. I real= ize that it could be that some were sent and I missed them.</p> <p dir=3D"auto">While I don't track developer emails anywhere near as muc= h as I should, I do still scan email subjects for <code style=3D"margin: = 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7;">l= pd</code>. Following Warner's email, the first email I've seen with that= in the subject was the one which started this thread. Well, technically= it was the one from Phabricator for <em>"D29566: lpd: Add -F flag t= o prevent daemonizing"</em>, which puzzled me because I thought that= change was already committed. But I read that email about 2 minutes bef= ore I read the first message in this thread.</p> <p dir=3D"auto">(aside: I am also on some OpeBSD mailing lists, mainly ju= st so I could follow <code style=3D"margin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; borde= r-radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7;">lpd</code>/<code style=3D"marg= in: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7= ;">lpr</code> posts in the land of OpenBSD. While there have been a few = changes there, none of them seemed particularly urgent.)</p> <p dir=3D"auto">I'll admit that right now I'm of two minds on this. Part= of me wants to point to all the commits that I have made to <code style=3D= "margin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-radius: 3px; background-color: #F= 7F7F7;">lpr</code>/<code style=3D"margin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-= radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7;">lpd</code> and say <em>"Wha= t the hell guys? If there's a problem then why didn't anyone contact me?= "</em>. However, part of me looks at the fact that I'm old and tire= d, and that I haven't read much of <strong>any</strong> FreeBSD-related e= mail in a few weeks, and I wonder if maybe it's time for me to hang up th= e old commit bit.</p> <p dir=3D"auto">I see that DES has committed several changes very recentl= y, but I haven't looked through them yet. Somewhere in this thread DES c= laims he's done more for <code style=3D"margin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; b= order-radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7;">lpd</code> than anyone els= e in the last 25 years. I'm sure that's true if we measured the last 15 = years, but I really doubt it's true for the last 25 years. And in the la= st 15 years I haven't seen much of any interest in <code style=3D"margin:= 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-radius: 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7;">= lpr</code>/<code style=3D"margin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-radius: = 3px; background-color: #F7F7F7;">lpd</code> from anyone on any FreeBSD ma= iling list.</p> <p dir=3D"auto">Feeding into my ambivalence is that my full-time job has = been painfully busy for a few years, as RPI keeps trying to get by with l= ess than half of the IT staff that it really needs. So right now I'm tor= n between quitting FreeBSD versus quitting my job at RPI (well, "ret= iring" more than "quitting". Yes, I'm that old...).</p> <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 5px; padding-left: 5px; border-left: 2px= solid #777777; color: #777777;"> <p dir=3D"auto">Also, I went to do a minor macOS upgrade on my main PGP-c= apable mac last week, and instead that mac was upgraded two major version= s of macOS. When I went to post this, I find that PGP isn't working for = me anymore. I don't use PGP much, but I know it was working fine back in= the end of January. But you can trust it's me. Who else would willingl= y <em>want</em> to admit that they have something to do with <code style=3D= "margin: 0 0; padding: 0 0.25em; border-radius: 3px; background-color: #F= 7F7F7;">lpd</code>?</p> </blockquote> <p dir=3D"auto">I think I've fixed the issues with PGP email. If you see= this paragraph, than I have!</p> </div><div id=3D"1E5069B8-B094-48FD-8A96-D66CC42C52FB"><!DOCTYPE html><di= v dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: sans-serif; fon= t-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-s= pacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-= transform: none; white-space: pre-wrap; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">-- = </div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: sans-s= erif; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;= letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0= px; text-transform: none; white-space: pre-wrap; widows: auto; word-spaci= ng: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Garance Alistair Drosehn = =3D [email protected] </div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: sans-s= erif; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;= letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0= px; text-transform: none; white-space: pre-wrap; widows: auto; word-spaci= ng: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Lead Developer @rpi = and [email protected] </div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: sans-s= erif; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;= letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0= px; text-transform: none; white-space: pre-wrap; widows: auto; word-spaci= ng: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Rensselaer Polytechnic Institut= e; Troy, NY; USA</div></div> <div class=3D"markdown" style=3D"white-space: normal;"> </div> </div> </body> </html> --=_MailMate_181DE090-98A2-49A9-9049-D6515C038941_=-- --=_MailMate_1B1F9872-A58A-4C86-B9A6-F251725CE4C5_= Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKkBAEBCgCOFiEEv4ee5i2+l7cwOR75y7uxrsysBS8FAmmt2xBfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEJG ODc5RUU2MkRCRTk3QjczMDM5MUVGOUNCQkJCMUFFQ0NBQzA1MkYQHGdhZEBmcmVl YnNkLm9yZwAKCRDLu7GuzKwFL8uaEACWrp25dH1ojORI7QWC93oYAg3iwIwwuJYC EGMdAkIAiquzeteYWQ+xXOLREKK0xzedr1Nfoz2V5CV5RnqqKSgUU2xvXLhBmIfT khl6DJvy6qwR4LL4Ua1FrycywSCtuqeSrCI+2s5Dk11uGqxqroHONq60OtowsJhq elhlGQbBaaENAFox/x1EzBcE+DFXmFBlB0mG1JwiQvnBFKPj0vmLW1VviJ7hXDG8 qacNjXFlCh74BODJ4y73A72aKwH9MahGVAFlzyRz7s4bGzkezh4dYgKsVKsz6wP9 KXSEHyWopBx/2lnImrPqo42dkg/l8cWwyWAhvgPB6BCfIuGSVZXCJroGpdmnFYO5 1WGL8jlSJIYphvkN/9gCD21haNu3cbXSMRcM/wmsZ5oa5M/sOuqixuOZY740ZvNK B8bBsRHtd5CSsP8jIX4G5/a+a6Tu2jqZNcN2DZEH90RzadGrANPynbzk3Os1gxuM dZYy8tMTpgmzWBcp4PcyKW47bT+om/05poArck6mvMIqsPQS9du1haxJf2FGP24l YylhE2/TctQ+fgqImuu/9Ev0qv3bRhvWpTuQfC2mBKR4N6Gshh4GKW6yZeOXk5JP EGPMXXFT8aTzQx338p0YaInSOB8Srenv1bgYSh0AmY9iNiCdmJZXl1MWy/0UkVul /e11y/d+AQ== =WXpo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_MailMate_1B1F9872-A58A-4C86-B9A6-F251725CE4C5_=--