Re: Reviewing Hurd-on-L4 (and considering its future?)

I agree.  I think any project needs its own full and complete suite of 
software, from the lowest level, up through user apps.

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin


On 5/23/2018 5:53 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
>> Betreff: Re: Reviewing Hurd-on-L4 (and considering its future?)
>>
>>   Forwarding my two replies sent directly to Paul and RMS to the list.
> When reading the reply by RMS, keep in mind that he is argumenting about utility for the goal of ridding the world of the requirement to run proprietary software - for any task.
>
> While I see the Hurd as great progress towards improving the Free Software solutions by making it much easier to hack low-level components, this does not replace existing proprietary lock-in. So in this, judging from existing information without taking unproven assumptions, RMS is right, because we did not demonstrate yet that it is easier to develop drivers on the Hurd than on Linux.
>
> Widespread use of the Hurd might bring growth to low-level free software development similar to how LLVM pushed language development (to name a pain point) and how FUSE pushed filesystem development, but it also might not.
>
> I personally think that the Hurd provides a much stronger foundation for a free software desktop than Linux. I already described that in detail on
>
>      Some technical advantages of the Hurd
>      http://www.draketo.de/light/english/free-software/some-technical-advantages-of-the-hurd
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne Babenhauserheide
>
>> -----[ Begin original email ]------------- Original Message --------
>> From: Richard Stallman <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tue, Jun 19, 2012 06:21 PM
>> To: Rick C. Hodgin <[email protected]>
>> CC:
>> Subject: Re: Replacement for the HURD
>>
>>      With either Linux or the HURD (as the HURD stands today) we cannot ever
>>      get there.  We cannot ever get to where we have a truly free operating
>>      system (kernel and up), even if we have the outward appearance and
>>      illusion of it.
>>
>> I don't think that follows.  Both Linux and Hurd _are_ free kernels.
>> The problem is that we lack free drivers and firmware for many peripherals.
>>
>> Replacing the free code of Linux with some other free code won't get
>> us the drivers or the firmware.  That requires writing drivers and firmware.
>>
>> I simply don't see how replacing the free code of Linux with other free code
>> would make progress along that dimension.
>>
>>      I realized at that time how easily I could write a competitor to
>>      Blender, or a 3D CAD system.  I even looked into it a little bit, but
>>      saw how many CAD programs there were out there and thought I could not
>>      write one sufficiently better than what's available to make it worth the
>>      amount of time it would require.
>>
>> The existing free CAD programs have a license incompatibility with GPLv3,
>> so it would be very useful to write a replacement.  However, one of them
>> is trying to eliminate its license incompatibility, and that helping
>> that project do so would be very useful.