Re: Regarding the ULTRIX and OSF1 compats

Bob Smith <[email protected]> Sat, 16 Mar 2019 21:49:30 +0000 (UTC)
Newsgroups gmane.os.netbsd.ports.alpha,gmane.os.netbsd.devel.kernel,gmane.os.netbsd.ports.pmax
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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 As a list member for as long as this list has been around, and beta tester=
 for the Vax versions in the 90s I think, (Hey Bilquist!,Mouse) and alpha v=
ersions,I can attest to Dave's knowledge. His head works rather well.

Msr Villard, apologies, but half a decade of involvement ain't squat. Are y=
ou reviving some skills from our long departed Vax guru? I won't invoke his=
 name, but you could practice his style of comment, both in ferocity and ap=
lomb. The Greater Baltimore area still misses him, and you are not his equa=
l.

I have my alpha boxes running a bit older version of NetBSD, as I have pass=
ed on all my vaxen to others.I am willing to part with an alpha or two DS10=
s and a couple of older versions if a maintainer needs hardware.I might hav=
e some uVaxIII stashed around here, with spare cards and interfaces if some=
one needs those.I would hate to have to move all my alphas to linux altho I=
 do have a version running on a couple of boxes.
 bob
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave McGuire <[email protected]>
To: Maxime Villard <[email protected]>
Cc: tech-kern <[email protected]>; port-pmax <[email protected]>; por=
t-alpha <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Mar 16, 2019 5:19 pm
Subject: Re: Regarding the ULTRIX and OSF1 compats

On March 16, 2019 5:02:46 PM Maxime Villard <[email protected]> wrote:
> Le 16/03/2019 =C3=A0 17:44, Dave McGuire a =C3=A9crit :
>> On 3/16/19 11:04 AM, Maxime Villard wrote:
>>>> I think that what Robert, and others (including me) argument is
>>>> actually that things should not be removed, and the reason would be
>>>> that this is the core mission, purpose, reason (or whatever you want
>>>> to call it) for NetBSDs existence. Instead it should be fixed, because
>>>> that is what it all is about. Make it work - don't remove it.
>>>
>>> It seems our disagreement comes down to that, indeed. It seems to me
>>> this has
>>> already been answered to, too, in previous discussions.
>>
>> Sigh.=C2=A0 So I see you're at it again.
>>
>> You are obviously quite obsessed with chopping out functionality that
>> you have unilaterally decided is not worth having in NetBSD anymore.
>
> Could you possibly be more dishonest than this? Impressive. Keep up the g=
ood
> work.

=C2=A0 We've had this conversation before.

>> Just who the hell do you think you are, anyway, and why are you so
>> obsessed with trashing everything that existed before you graced us with
>> your presence?
>
> I am one of the very few people that have continuously and extensively wo=
rked
> on the NetBSD kernel over the last five years, to bring stability, perfor=
mance
> and security improvements in all of the system. I've redesigned a good pa=
rt of
> our x86 port, I've developed all the complex fixes for the speculation bu=
gs,
> I've worked on securing our network stack, our syscalls, our allocators, =
I've
> developed comprehensive hypervisor support, the strongest KASLR existing =
to
> date, and apart from that, I've developed numerous bug detection systems =
that
> have fixed several hundreds of bugs in NetBSD, among many other miscellan=
eous
> things I've done in and for NetBSD.

=C2=A0 We'll thanks for that. (seriously, thank you)=C2=A0 But you obviousl=
y think this gives you the right to redefine what this project has always b=
een about, at its core.=C2=A0 Do you even remember "Of course it runs NETBS=
D"?=C2=A0 Do you even care?

> And you, who are you exactly?=C2=A0 You sound like a clueless fatass.

=C2=A0 Oh, I assure you, I AM quite the fatass.=C2=A0 I can send photos!=C2=
=A0 If you'd like to label me as clueless because I voice opposition to you=
r personal agenda, that's your prerogative, but personally I think that's a=
 bit of a leap, and would question your logic.

=C2=A0 But who I am is a long-time user and supporter of this OS.=C2=A0 I h=
ave deployed thousands (many thousands) of NetBSD systems in commercial env=
ironments.=C2=A0 And I have used and depended upon the functionality that y=
ou seek to remove.

=C2=A0 Are you one of those developers who considers users and their opinio=
ns to be nothing more than inconveniences that get in the way of what you w=
ant to do?=C2=A0 Because that's sure what you sound like.

>
>> If you have such a problem with the COMPAT_* layers, go fix them.=C2=A0 =
I
>> realize that would be more work, and it'd be easier to just trash them,
>> but that's not what NetBSD is about, and your attitude about this is
>> most unwelcome, coming from this NetBSD user since v0.9.
>>
>>
>> You need a serious adjustment of perspective.=C2=A0 As others have
>> suggested, please go read about what NetBSD is, its clearly-stated
>> mission, and its spirit.
>
> As I said, keep up the good work. Anyway you've just lost what was left
> of your credibility, your mails go directly to the trash from now on.

=C2=A0 I'll try to contain my sorrow.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


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<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'>
<div> <font size=3D"2">As a list member for as long as this list has been a=
round, and beta tester for the Vax versions in the 90s I think, (Hey Bilqui=
st!,Mouse) and alpha versions,</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">I can attest to Dave's knowledge. His head works rath=
er well.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Msr Villard, apologies, but half a decade of involvem=
ent ain't squat. Are you reviving some skills from our long departed Vax gu=
ru? I won't invoke his name, but you could practice his style of comment, b=
oth in ferocity and aplomb. The Greater Baltimore area still misses him, an=
d you are not his equal.<br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">I have my alpha boxes running a bit older version of =
NetBSD, as I have passed on all my vaxen to others.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">I am willing to part with an alpha or two DS10s and a=
 couple of older versions if a maintainer needs hardware.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">I might have some uVaxIII stashed around here, with s=
pare cards and interfaces if someone needs those.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">I would hate to have to move all my alphas to linux a=
ltho I do have a version running on a couple of boxes.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <font size=3D"2">bob</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Dave McGuire &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
To: Maxime Villard &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
Cc: tech-kern &lt;[email protected]&gt;; port-pmax &lt;port-pmax@netbsd.=
org&gt;; port-alpha &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
Sent: Sat, Mar 16, 2019 5:19 pm<br>
Subject: Re: Regarding the ULTRIX and OSF1 compats<br>
<br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">On March 16, 2019 5:02:46 PM Maxime Villard &lt;<a shape=
=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"no=
ne">&gt; Le 16/03/2019 =C3=A0 17:44, Dave McGuire a =C3=A9crit :<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt;&gt; On 3/16/19 11:04 AM, Maxime Villard wrote:<br clear=3D"n=
one">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think that what Robert, and others (including me) a=
rgument is<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; actually that things should n=
ot be removed, and the reason would be<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; t=
hat this is the core mission, purpose, reason (or whatever you want<br clea=
r=3D"none">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to call it) for NetBSDs existence. Instead it s=
hould be fixed, because<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that is what it =
all is about. Make it work - don't remove it.<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt;&gt; It seems our disagreement comes down to th=
at, indeed. It seems to me<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt;&gt; this has<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt;&gt;&gt; already been answered to, too, in previous discussio=
ns.<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt;<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt; Sigh.&nbsp; So I =
see you're at it again.<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt;<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&g=
t; You are obviously quite obsessed with chopping out functionality that<br=
 clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt; you have unilaterally decided is not worth having =
in NetBSD anymore.<br clear=3D"none">&gt;<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Could you =
possibly be more dishonest than this? Impressive. Keep up the good<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; work.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&nbsp; We've had =
this conversation before.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt; Jus=
t who the hell do you think you are, anyway, and why are you so<br clear=3D=
"none">&gt;&gt; obsessed with trashing everything that existed before you g=
raced us with<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt; your presence?<br clear=3D"none">&=
gt;<br clear=3D"none">&gt; I am one of the very few people that have contin=
uously and extensively worked<br clear=3D"none">&gt; on the NetBSD kernel o=
ver the last five years, to bring stability, performance<br clear=3D"none">=
&gt; and security improvements in all of the system. I've redesigned a good=
 part of<br clear=3D"none">&gt; our x86 port, I've developed all the comple=
x fixes for the speculation bugs,<br clear=3D"none">&gt; I've worked on sec=
uring our network stack, our syscalls, our allocators, I've<br clear=3D"non=
e">&gt; developed comprehensive hypervisor support, the strongest KASLR exi=
sting to<br clear=3D"none">&gt; date, and apart from that, I've developed n=
umerous bug detection systems that<br clear=3D"none">&gt; have fixed severa=
l hundreds of bugs in NetBSD, among many other miscellaneous<br clear=3D"no=
ne">&gt; things I've done in and for NetBSD.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D=
"none">&nbsp; We'll thanks for that. (seriously, thank you)&nbsp; But you o=
bviously think this gives you the right to redefine what this project has a=
lways been about, at its core.&nbsp; Do you even remember "Of course it run=
s NETBSD"?&nbsp; Do you even care?<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&gt=
; And you, who are you exactly?&nbsp; You sound like a clueless fatass.<br =
clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&nbsp; Oh, I assure you, I AM quite the f=
atass.&nbsp; I can send photos!&nbsp; If you'd like to label me as clueless=
 because I voice opposition to your personal agenda, that's your prerogativ=
e, but personally I think that's a bit of a leap, and would question your l=
ogic.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&nbsp; But who I am is a long-ti=
me user and supporter of this OS.&nbsp; I have deployed thousands (many tho=
usands) of NetBSD systems in commercial environments.&nbsp; And I have used=
 and depended upon the functionality that you seek to remove.<br clear=3D"n=
one"><br clear=3D"none">&nbsp; Are you one of those developers who consider=
s users and their opinions to be nothing more than inconveniences that get =
in the way of what you want to do?&nbsp; Because that's sure what you sound=
 like.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&gt;<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt;=
 If you have such a problem with the COMPAT_* layers, go fix them.&nbsp; I<=
br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt; realize that would be more work, and it'd be eas=
ier to just trash them,<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt; but that's not what NetB=
SD is about, and your attitude about this is<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt; mos=
t unwelcome, coming from this NetBSD user since v0.9.<br clear=3D"none">&gt=
;&gt;<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt;<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&gt; You need a seri=
ous adjustment of perspective.&nbsp; As others have<br clear=3D"none">&gt;&=
gt; suggested, please go read about what NetBSD is, its clearly-stated<br c=
lear=3D"none">&gt;&gt; mission, and its spirit.<br clear=3D"none">&gt;<br c=
lear=3D"none">&gt; As I said, keep up the good work. Anyway you've just los=
t what was left<br clear=3D"none">&gt; of your credibility, your mails go d=
irectly to the trash from now on.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&nbs=
p; I'll try to contain my sorrow.
<div class=3D"yqt9148923172" id=3D"yqtfd56891"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;  -Dave</div>
<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">--<br clear=3D"none">Dave McGuire, AK=
4HZ<br clear=3D"none">New Kensington, PA
<div class=3D"yqt9148923172" id=3D"yqtfd54606"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
</font>
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