Re: Regarding the ULTRIX and OSF1 compats
Bob Smith <[email protected]> Sat, 16 Mar 2019 21:49:30 +0000 (UTC)
| Newsgroups | gmane.os.netbsd.ports.alpha,gmane.os.netbsd.devel.kernel,gmane.os.netbsd.ports.pmax |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
------=_Part_6101168_516958419.1552772970785 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a list member for as long as this list has been around, and beta tester= for the Vax versions in the 90s I think, (Hey Bilquist!,Mouse) and alpha v= ersions,I can attest to Dave's knowledge. His head works rather well. Msr Villard, apologies, but half a decade of involvement ain't squat. Are y= ou reviving some skills from our long departed Vax guru? I won't invoke his= name, but you could practice his style of comment, both in ferocity and ap= lomb. The Greater Baltimore area still misses him, and you are not his equa= l. I have my alpha boxes running a bit older version of NetBSD, as I have pass= ed on all my vaxen to others.I am willing to part with an alpha or two DS10= s and a couple of older versions if a maintainer needs hardware.I might hav= e some uVaxIII stashed around here, with spare cards and interfaces if some= one needs those.I would hate to have to move all my alphas to linux altho I= do have a version running on a couple of boxes. bob =20 -----Original Message----- From: Dave McGuire <[email protected]> To: Maxime Villard <[email protected]> Cc: tech-kern <[email protected]>; port-pmax <[email protected]>; por= t-alpha <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, Mar 16, 2019 5:19 pm Subject: Re: Regarding the ULTRIX and OSF1 compats On March 16, 2019 5:02:46 PM Maxime Villard <[email protected]> wrote: > Le 16/03/2019 =C3=A0 17:44, Dave McGuire a =C3=A9crit : >> On 3/16/19 11:04 AM, Maxime Villard wrote: >>>> I think that what Robert, and others (including me) argument is >>>> actually that things should not be removed, and the reason would be >>>> that this is the core mission, purpose, reason (or whatever you want >>>> to call it) for NetBSDs existence. Instead it should be fixed, because >>>> that is what it all is about. Make it work - don't remove it. >>> >>> It seems our disagreement comes down to that, indeed. It seems to me >>> this has >>> already been answered to, too, in previous discussions. >> >> Sigh.=C2=A0 So I see you're at it again. >> >> You are obviously quite obsessed with chopping out functionality that >> you have unilaterally decided is not worth having in NetBSD anymore. > > Could you possibly be more dishonest than this? Impressive. Keep up the g= ood > work. =C2=A0 We've had this conversation before. >> Just who the hell do you think you are, anyway, and why are you so >> obsessed with trashing everything that existed before you graced us with >> your presence? > > I am one of the very few people that have continuously and extensively wo= rked > on the NetBSD kernel over the last five years, to bring stability, perfor= mance > and security improvements in all of the system. I've redesigned a good pa= rt of > our x86 port, I've developed all the complex fixes for the speculation bu= gs, > I've worked on securing our network stack, our syscalls, our allocators, = I've > developed comprehensive hypervisor support, the strongest KASLR existing = to > date, and apart from that, I've developed numerous bug detection systems = that > have fixed several hundreds of bugs in NetBSD, among many other miscellan= eous > things I've done in and for NetBSD. =C2=A0 We'll thanks for that. (seriously, thank you)=C2=A0 But you obviousl= y think this gives you the right to redefine what this project has always b= een about, at its core.=C2=A0 Do you even remember "Of course it runs NETBS= D"?=C2=A0 Do you even care? > And you, who are you exactly?=C2=A0 You sound like a clueless fatass. =C2=A0 Oh, I assure you, I AM quite the fatass.=C2=A0 I can send photos!=C2= =A0 If you'd like to label me as clueless because I voice opposition to you= r personal agenda, that's your prerogative, but personally I think that's a= bit of a leap, and would question your logic. =C2=A0 But who I am is a long-time user and supporter of this OS.=C2=A0 I h= ave deployed thousands (many thousands) of NetBSD systems in commercial env= ironments.=C2=A0 And I have used and depended upon the functionality that y= ou seek to remove. =C2=A0 Are you one of those developers who considers users and their opinio= ns to be nothing more than inconveniences that get in the way of what you w= ant to do?=C2=A0 Because that's sure what you sound like. > >> If you have such a problem with the COMPAT_* layers, go fix them.=C2=A0 = I >> realize that would be more work, and it'd be easier to just trash them, >> but that's not what NetBSD is about, and your attitude about this is >> most unwelcome, coming from this NetBSD user since v0.9. >> >> >> You need a serious adjustment of perspective.=C2=A0 As others have >> suggested, please go read about what NetBSD is, its clearly-stated >> mission, and its spirit. > > As I said, keep up the good work. Anyway you've just lost what was left > of your credibility, your mails go directly to the trash from now on. =C2=A0 I'll try to contain my sorrow. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA ------=_Part_6101168_516958419.1552772970785 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'> <div> <font size=3D"2">As a list member for as long as this list has been a= round, and beta tester for the Vax versions in the 90s I think, (Hey Bilqui= st!,Mouse) and alpha versions,</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2">I can attest to Dave's knowledge. His head works rath= er well.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2"><br> </font></div> <div><font size=3D"2"><br> </font></div> <div><font size=3D"2">Msr Villard, apologies, but half a decade of involvem= ent ain't squat. Are you reviving some skills from our long departed Vax gu= ru? I won't invoke his name, but you could practice his style of comment, b= oth in ferocity and aplomb. The Greater Baltimore area still misses him, an= d you are not his equal.<br> </font></div> <div><font size=3D"2"><br> </font></div> <div><font size=3D"2">I have my alpha boxes running a bit older version of = NetBSD, as I have passed on all my vaxen to others.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2">I am willing to part with an alpha or two DS10s and a= couple of older versions if a maintainer needs hardware.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2">I might have some uVaxIII stashed around here, with s= pare cards and interfaces if someone needs those.</font></div> <div><font size=3D"2">I would hate to have to move all my alphas to linux a= ltho I do have a version running on a couple of boxes.</font><br> </div> <div> <font size=3D"2">bob</font><br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----= Original Message-----<br> From: Dave McGuire <[email protected]><br> To: Maxime Villard <[email protected]><br> Cc: tech-kern <[email protected]>; port-pmax <port-pmax@netbsd.= org>; port-alpha <[email protected]><br> Sent: Sat, Mar 16, 2019 5:19 pm<br> Subject: Re: Regarding the ULTRIX and OSF1 compats<br> <br> <div dir=3D"ltr">On March 16, 2019 5:02:46 PM Maxime Villard <<a shape= =3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" hr= ef=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"no= ne">> Le 16/03/2019 =C3=A0 17:44, Dave McGuire a =C3=A9crit :<br clear= =3D"none">>> On 3/16/19 11:04 AM, Maxime Villard wrote:<br clear=3D"n= one">>>>> I think that what Robert, and others (including me) a= rgument is<br clear=3D"none">>>>> actually that things should n= ot be removed, and the reason would be<br clear=3D"none">>>>> t= hat this is the core mission, purpose, reason (or whatever you want<br clea= r=3D"none">>>>> to call it) for NetBSDs existence. Instead it s= hould be fixed, because<br clear=3D"none">>>>> that is what it = all is about. Make it work - don't remove it.<br clear=3D"none">>>>= ;<br clear=3D"none">>>> It seems our disagreement comes down to th= at, indeed. It seems to me<br clear=3D"none">>>> this has<br clear= =3D"none">>>> already been answered to, too, in previous discussio= ns.<br clear=3D"none">>><br clear=3D"none">>> Sigh. So I = see you're at it again.<br clear=3D"none">>><br clear=3D"none">>&g= t; You are obviously quite obsessed with chopping out functionality that<br= clear=3D"none">>> you have unilaterally decided is not worth having = in NetBSD anymore.<br clear=3D"none">><br clear=3D"none">> Could you = possibly be more dishonest than this? Impressive. Keep up the good<br clear= =3D"none">> work.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"> We've had = this conversation before.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">>> Jus= t who the hell do you think you are, anyway, and why are you so<br clear=3D= "none">>> obsessed with trashing everything that existed before you g= raced us with<br clear=3D"none">>> your presence?<br clear=3D"none">&= gt;<br clear=3D"none">> I am one of the very few people that have contin= uously and extensively worked<br clear=3D"none">> on the NetBSD kernel o= ver the last five years, to bring stability, performance<br clear=3D"none">= > and security improvements in all of the system. I've redesigned a good= part of<br clear=3D"none">> our x86 port, I've developed all the comple= x fixes for the speculation bugs,<br clear=3D"none">> I've worked on sec= uring our network stack, our syscalls, our allocators, I've<br clear=3D"non= e">> developed comprehensive hypervisor support, the strongest KASLR exi= sting to<br clear=3D"none">> date, and apart from that, I've developed n= umerous bug detection systems that<br clear=3D"none">> have fixed severa= l hundreds of bugs in NetBSD, among many other miscellaneous<br clear=3D"no= ne">> things I've done in and for NetBSD.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D= "none"> We'll thanks for that. (seriously, thank you) But you o= bviously think this gives you the right to redefine what this project has a= lways been about, at its core. Do you even remember "Of course it run= s NETBSD"? Do you even care?<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">>= ; And you, who are you exactly? You sound like a clueless fatass.<br = clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"> Oh, I assure you, I AM quite the f= atass. I can send photos! If you'd like to label me as clueless= because I voice opposition to your personal agenda, that's your prerogativ= e, but personally I think that's a bit of a leap, and would question your l= ogic.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"> But who I am is a long-ti= me user and supporter of this OS. I have deployed thousands (many tho= usands) of NetBSD systems in commercial environments. And I have used= and depended upon the functionality that you seek to remove.<br clear=3D"n= one"><br clear=3D"none"> Are you one of those developers who consider= s users and their opinions to be nothing more than inconveniences that get = in the way of what you want to do? Because that's sure what you sound= like.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">><br clear=3D"none">>>= If you have such a problem with the COMPAT_* layers, go fix them. I<= br clear=3D"none">>> realize that would be more work, and it'd be eas= ier to just trash them,<br clear=3D"none">>> but that's not what NetB= SD is about, and your attitude about this is<br clear=3D"none">>> mos= t unwelcome, coming from this NetBSD user since v0.9.<br clear=3D"none">>= ;><br clear=3D"none">>><br clear=3D"none">>> You need a seri= ous adjustment of perspective. As others have<br clear=3D"none">>&= gt; suggested, please go read about what NetBSD is, its clearly-stated<br c= lear=3D"none">>> mission, and its spirit.<br clear=3D"none">><br c= lear=3D"none">> As I said, keep up the good work. Anyway you've just los= t what was left<br clear=3D"none">> of your credibility, your mails go d= irectly to the trash from now on.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&nbs= p; I'll try to contain my sorrow. <div class=3D"yqt9148923172" id=3D"yqtfd56891"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear= =3D"none"> -Dave</div> <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">--<br clear=3D"none">Dave McGuire, AK= 4HZ<br clear=3D"none">New Kensington, PA <div class=3D"yqt9148923172" id=3D"yqtfd54606"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear= =3D"none"></div> </div> </div> </font> ------=_Part_6101168_516958419.1552772970785--