Re: Regarding the ULTRIX and OSF1 compats

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 I think I used it once, but did not need it.Well said Jason.
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Thorpe <[email protected]>
To: Bob Smith <[email protected]>
Cc: Dave McGuire <[email protected]>; Maxime Villard <[email protected]>;=
 Tech-kern <[email protected]>; port-pmax <[email protected]>; port-a=
lpha <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Mar 16, 2019 8:32 pm
Subject: Re: Regarding the ULTRIX and OSF1 compats


> On Mar 16, 2019, at 2:49 PM, Bob Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> As a list member for as long as this list has been around, and beta teste=
r for the Vax versions in the 90s I think, (Hey Bilquist!,Mouse) and alpha =
versions,
> I can attest to Dave's knowledge. His head works rather well.

Indeed, I think we should all maintain civility in this discussion (</me> w=
ags finger at Maxime for his "fat-ass" remark ... I'm not the oldest nor wi=
sest guy around these parts, but I am old/wise enough to know that such ad =
hominem attacks seldom result in the outcome one is hoping to achieve)...

> Msr Villard, apologies, but half a decade of involvement ain't squat. Are=
 you reviving some skills from our long departed Vax guru? I won't invoke h=
is name, but you could practice his style of comment, both in ferocity and =
aplomb. The Greater Baltimore area still misses him, and you are not his eq=
ual.

...however, just because he's a fresh face in the crowd doesn't mean his po=
sition lacks and underlying wisdom.=C2=A0 Ageism cuts both ways, and it's n=
ot fair in either instance.

BUT... if you're going to wield that argument... I think it's fair to say t=
hat I've been around the block, particularly when it comes to the Alpha por=
t... cgd@ is, of course, the guy who made it happen, but back in the day, A=
lpha was one of my primary development platforms, and I spent considerable =
effort improving the Alpha port.=C2=A0 Go ahead, check the logs.

This is all to say -- I've got some skin in this game, and I bring a perspe=
ctive as to the utility of the code in question.=C2=A0 And I agree *complet=
ely* with what Maxime is doing.

Raise your hand if you EVER used COMPAT_OSF1.=C2=A0 (</me> raises hand).=C2=
=A0 Anyone else?=C2=A0 I can wait...

(I think it's telling that this conversation has been happening on-and-off =
on port-alpha for several weeks now and literally no one has piped up to sa=
y that they're using COMPAT_OSF1/...)

As to the argument "well, hey, maybe people don't read the mailing list!", =
my response is "That's a real bummer for them, because we're not wizards an=
d can't send them an owl with important announcements scrawled on parchment=
 no matter where they are in the world."=C2=A0 Our system doesn't have any =
telemetry being fed into Splunk to tell us how much a given feature is bein=
g used, or what the most popular Ethernet driver is.=C2=A0 And I can imagin=
e the fury that would result if someone even proposed such a telemetry syst=
em.=C2=A0 So, we use what we have -- the mailing lists.=C2=A0 That's why th=
ey exist!=C2=A0 Ours is a platform where a little effort on the part of the=
 end-user is basically required in order to inform decisions.=C2=A0 I'm not=
 passing judgement on that either way, just stating a fact.

-- thorpej

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<div> <font size=3D"2">I think I used it once, but did not need it.</font><=
/div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Well said Jason.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2"></font><br>
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<div> <br>
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<div style=3D"font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Jason Thorpe &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
To: Bob Smith &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
Cc: Dave McGuire &lt;[email protected]&gt;; Maxime Villard &lt;max@m00n=
bsd.net&gt;; Tech-kern &lt;[email protected]&gt;; port-pmax &lt;port-pma=
[email protected]&gt;; port-alpha &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
Sent: Sat, Mar 16, 2019 8:32 pm<br>
Subject: Re: Regarding the ULTRIX and OSF1 compats<br>
<br>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">&gt; On Mar 16, 2019, at 2:49 PM, Bob S=
mith &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noo=
pener noreferrer" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; As a list member=
 for as long as this list has been around, and beta tester for the Vax vers=
ions in the 90s I think, (Hey Bilquist!,Mouse) and alpha versions,<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; I can attest to Dave's knowledge. His head works rather well=
.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Indeed, I think we should all mainta=
in civility in this discussion (&lt;/me&gt; wags finger at Maxime for his "=
fat-ass" remark ... I'm not the oldest nor wisest guy around these parts, b=
ut I am old/wise enough to know that such ad hominem attacks seldom result =
in the outcome one is hoping to achieve)...
<div class=3D"yqt7245795940" id=3D"yqtfd54349"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; Msr Villard, apologies, but half a decade of involvement ain=
't squat. Are you reviving some skills from our long departed Vax guru? I w=
on't invoke his name, but you could practice his style of comment, both in =
ferocity and aplomb. The Greater Baltimore area still misses him, and you a=
re not his equal.</div>
<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">...however, just because he's a fresh=
 face in the crowd doesn't mean his position lacks and underlying wisdom.&n=
bsp; Ageism cuts both ways, and it's not fair in either instance.<br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">BUT... if you're going to wield that argument.=
.. I think it's fair to say that I've been around the block, particularly w=
hen it comes to the Alpha port... cgd@ is, of course, the guy who made it h=
appen, but back in the day, Alpha was one of my primary development platfor=
ms, and I spent considerable effort improving the Alpha port.&nbsp; Go ahea=
d, check the logs.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">This is all to say =
-- I've got some skin in this game, and I bring a perspective as to the uti=
lity of the code in question.&nbsp; And I agree *completely* with what Maxi=
me is doing.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Raise your hand if you EV=
ER used COMPAT_OSF1.&nbsp; (&lt;/me&gt; raises hand).&nbsp; Anyone else?&nb=
sp; I can wait...<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">(I think it's tellin=
g that this conversation has been happening on-and-off on port-alpha for se=
veral weeks now and literally no one has piped up to say that they're using=
 COMPAT_OSF1/...)<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">As to the argument "=
well, hey, maybe people don't read the mailing list!", my response is "That=
's a real bummer for them, because we're not wizards and can't send them an=
 owl with important announcements scrawled on parchment no matter where the=
y are in the world."&nbsp; Our system doesn't have any telemetry being fed =
into Splunk to tell us how much a given feature is being used, or what the =
most popular Ethernet driver is.&nbsp; And I can imagine the fury that woul=
d result if someone even proposed such a telemetry system.&nbsp; So, we use=
 what we have -- the mailing lists.&nbsp; That's why they exist!&nbsp; Ours=
 is a platform where a little effort on the part of the end-user is basical=
ly required in order to inform decisions.&nbsp; I'm not passing judgement o=
n that either way, just stating a fact.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none=
">-- thorpej
<div class=3D"yqt7245795940" id=3D"yqtfd84923"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
</font>
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