Re: Few ideas how to help out to collect some money for OpenBSD and make it more popular

Thank you for your point Christopher.


Am 20.01.2014 00:49, schrieb Christopher Ahrens:
> Mark Schneider wrote:
>> Thanks for your suggestions Ryan.
>>
>> On 18.01.2014 02:59, Ryan Kirk wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the point of a Swiss bank account? Especially with FATCA?
>>> OpenBSD has a nonprofit foundation behind it which looks a lot better
>>> than funneling money through tax havens.
>>>
>> Swiss bank accounts are the most safe worldwide.
>> Some donating people want to stay anonymous so it is neccessary to ofer
>> them such posibility.
>> Further it is rather difficult (in particular for foreign secret service
>> agancies) to monitor payments and/or to block money of nonprofit
>> fundations when the account is just in a neutral country like 
>> Switzerland.
>>
>
> The NSA was able to bug Merkle's phone, I don't think they have a
> problem with Swiss bank accounts.  Besides, who many people out there
> would be embarrassed by donating to OpenBSD?  If they are trying to
> stay anonymous, they could always use BitCoin; setting up a Swiss
> account will only cause MI6/FSB/NSA/CIA to follow Theo and the rest of
> the foundation so close they know what they ate for breakfast...
> Beside that, do you even know what the fees are on numbered accounts?
> Silence and anonymity isn't cheap.
According to some news Merkel didn't use the special encrytpion of the phone
because of it's complexity but used it like everyone else.
I was not involved into these investigations so I don't know details and 
what is true.
It is well known for years that the current encrytpion of cell phones 
communication is broken.

I always wonder that some people don't understand the necessity to have
for themself and others always the free choice.
No one foreign secret service agency has direct access to swiss bank 
accounts.
Otherewise there will be no reason for some goverments to pay millions 
of EURO
for bank data.

When I want to donate it is only my business but nobody's else!

>>> OpenBSD would have no problem receiving donations if it became
>>> something most of its developers and users don't want it to become.
>>> Linux or FreeBSD have shown the way to users and incone via various
>>> models (paid support, enterprise features, long-term releases,
>>> automation tools, trying to be everything to everyone, etc). While it
>>> is admirable that OpenBSD has eschewed corporate sponsorship so that
>>> it has the freedom to be autonomous, the price for that is, of course,
>>> money.
>>>
>> The main disadvantage of the current distribution model of OpenBSD is
>> (from my point of view) the limited availability of the same iso images
>> as in the distributed CD set. Most of other *BSD or Linux distribution
>> offer downloads of current iso images.
>>
>> Image downloads are of course less secure as the "man in the middle"
>> could modify the image and fake the signatures.
>> Installations over the network are also not as secure as installing
>> offline from original CD or DVD image. As brand new hardware doesn't
>> have CD/DVD drive anymore an installation from a USB stick (with ROM
>> memory .. not flash due to security concerns) seems to be required.
>
> Do have any idea how much that would cost?  A CD is like $0.05 per unit,
> a read-only flash drive would cost at least $50.00 per unit with a long
> delay attached to production.  There is a reason no one does this.
A CD may cost only lie $0.05 per unit but all handling costs are much 
higher.
When you sell a set of three CDs mostly one (or two) of them for the target
CPU architecture will be used. The other two (or one) are plastic garbage.

Debian and some other distributions are able to manage costs of downloads
so it is not a real problem for others like OpenBSD.

> Just buy the CD and copy the file set to your own flash disk.
I guess I know better what I want, don't I?


>> Financial aspects of the current distribution model are another very
>> important topic.
>> Let say the swiss OpenBSD user pays for the CD set 50 CHF (swiss
>> francs). The price includes 8% VAT (= CHF 3.60)
>> The german OpenBSD user has to pay 19% VAT. If the price would be 40
>> Euro (EUR) the VAT is EUR 6.39.
>> Myself I prefer to donate than to pay unnecessary VAT or other handling
>> costs.
>>
>> My conclusion and suggestion is to sell the CD media kit for the lowest
>> possible price (production costs plus additional charges like shipment
>> and custom costs, VAT etc) and ask users to donate $ 20 to $ 50 instead.
>>
>> Another possibility is to enable downloads of original iso images for
>> people who donate yearly let say at least $20, 30 or more. My preffered
>> way is to donate once for few years in advance to assure continous
>> development of OpenBSD and cover operating costs of the required server
>> infrastructure.
>
> What would anyone get out of this that they couldn't with the -release
> images?  Unless you are planning on producing your own and robbing the
> project of one of its sources of income.
The original idea I had (and still have) is to support OpenBSD with $500
but with a bit more than just only simple donation. Instead buying as much
CD sets as possible, selling them locally and donate the profit to OpenBSD.
I do it in my free time and because I want to do so. I am not interested
to make profit for myself distributing OpenBSD CD sets but just to help
making OpenBSD more popular.

If there some more intelligent people in other countries doing the same
OpenBSD will not complain anymore about financial problems.

>>> Instead of concentrating on users, it might be more worthwhile to
>>> focus a campaign on pressuring vendors of enterprise *nix OS's that
>>> bundle OpenSSH without contributing a nickel to the cause. This would
>>> be most effectively done by buyers in large corporate environments,
>>> but this is also the most unlikely group to care. Has any thought been
>>> given to media relations? A story in Wired about the world's most
>>> underappreciated developers of some of the most critical software
>>> could do enormous good. Rumors of an impending implosion could work
>>> wonders on those Fortune 500 enterprise *nix vendors who would much
>>> rather donate a hundred grand or so rather than spend many times that
>>> to develop a critical component in-house.
>>>
>> Big companies will donate regulary as they want continuos support and
>> maintenace for OpenBSD.
>>
> Why?  That logic only works if we are the only provider of an ssh
> server, which we aren't and the license doesn't require anything of them
Because most companies trust OpenBSD much more than all others.


Kind regards, Mark

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